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[Music]

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this

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spread

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[Music]

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welcome to somewhere in the skies i am

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your host ryan sprague

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and we are not going to waste any time

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today because

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we're going to be really running the

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gamut tonight ufos

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paranormal cryptids valet

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uh we've got john keel i can't wait to

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talk to today's guest i've been

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meaning to do this for a really long

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time and i'm so excited

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and honored to finally have her here

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zelia edgar is with us today

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zelia thank you so much for joining me

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today on somewhere in the skies

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well hey thank you so much for having me

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on the show this is just i'm really

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excited for tonight so

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thank you really yeah my pleasure and i

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mean we've been talking off there

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for a while and i said hey i should

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probably be recording because uh

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we we have a lot to talk about so again

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like i said

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i don't want to waste either of our time

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let's dive right in

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i have to ask origin story this is your

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first time on the show

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for any of my listeners viewers who

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don't know who zelia is

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uh tell us a little about how you first

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got interested in the paranormal

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ufos yeah give us the um the condensed

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life story of celia if you don't mind

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yeah sure thing well you know it's one

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of those things where actually i've had

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a major interest in just kind of the

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general like weird for my entire life

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and i blame part of this in my home

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state of wisconsin which of course is

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kind of known for being just a very

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weird state you know it's got

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a lot of paranormal history as well as

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just very strange happenings

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and of course some fantastic folklore

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and i did actually i grew up

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kind of immersed in the folklore

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particularly of southwestern wisconsin

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where my mom's family is from

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so i got to grow up hearing stories like

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the macabre true story of coffee woods

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murder of coffee woods

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and other you know incredibly weird but

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also true stories such as

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the um mysterious no dolph incident

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where these

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two kids in the late 1800s actually

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vanish from inside of their locked home

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during a rainstorm

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um very very just weird stories but two

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actually my family has kind of a

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you know strong history of weirdness as

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well so i got to grow up hearing stories

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about

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the old haunted house where my mom grew

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up she and her sister had

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a very bizarre ufo encounter that

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happened at the time as well and then

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even my grandma remembered hearing

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when she was a girl that one of her

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neighbors actually or a friend of theirs

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saw this big hairy arm burst through the

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window of their home so that's kind of

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what i grew up with

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and then when i was probably and so i

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gravitated towards

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being interested in all manner of weird

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stories and phenomena

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and when i was probably eight years old

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actually my mom

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of all people thought that it would be

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cool to get me

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into studying and researching bigfoot

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and so she actually introduced me first

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to the patterson gimlin footage

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because she at the time was thinking

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that this was kind of just a

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you know a funny hoax from the 60s and

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70s

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and then as she started you know

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researching it with me because of course

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i latched on to her right away i was

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like this is fantastic

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she started noticing too she's like oh

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this seems like a legitimate phenomenon

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so now my mom

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actually has a major interest in bigfoot

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which i

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again totally latched on to so i started

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at that time with a huge interest

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mainly in cryptozoology and so i first

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think i went to the library and got

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every single book i could find on the

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topic one of them actually happened to

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be

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um john keel's complete guide to

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mysterious beings which i think worked

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its way into my subconscious and

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manifested years later

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and then a major turning point for me

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when i was 10 years old i had the

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pleasure of meeting linda godfrey

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at one of her book signings and that was

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just

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again it was a major major turning point

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for me because there was i was a kid i

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had an interest in all this weird stuff

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um you know two not many not many people

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you know generally speaking have a

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devout interest in this sort of thing so

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you know my family was very open to it

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but as far as anyone else it was kind of

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just like

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you know sort of whatever thing and here

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is this adult

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um again she's from wisconsin too who is

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actively researching she has a job in

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this field and that meant

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the world to me to see that a year later

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i met another wisconsin researcher chad

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lewis

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and i've been probably too gosh i know

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maybe 50 of his book signings over the

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years

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and he is just you know he's fantastic

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too he's

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written countless books on the topic and

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so those were kind of the major

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turning points in my life that cemented

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my interest in the paranormal

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and yeah again oh sorry go on no i was

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going to say that's so cool that you

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you started at such a young age i mean i

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was the same way i i conducted my first

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interview with a ufo witness when i was

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13.

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so i mean you can only imagine uh it

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wasn't

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easy to kind of talk to friends about

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this sort of stuff

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um i mean i remember getting made fun of

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all the time

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if i would bring it up i would like

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secretly be reading

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books uh it from the library like you

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about ufos and loch ness monster and all

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that good stuff

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and um yeah so it's so good to know that

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you um

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you found those people to look up to i

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was the same way i had the you know

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those

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mentors that kind of guided me along the

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way and said you know it's okay

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it's okay to to talk about these things

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and

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legitimate phenomena

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happening so that's pretty cool um

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well i guess my next question would be

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okay so you start researching

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um you know and like like i said you're

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not just a ufo researcher you've looked

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into

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everything paranormal cryptids um

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esoteric ufos

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uh but you did become a state director

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for mufon so i have to ask first of all

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how did that happen

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i mean wow that's pretty big role to

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take on

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um for someone i would assume of your

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age i mean usually

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we we see these state directors and

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they've been doing it for 20 something

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years so um

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first of all how did you get connected

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with mufon um were there any really

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interesting cases

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that uh you investigated uh that you're

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willing to share

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and then what uh what made you decide to

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uh leave the organization

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if you're willing to share oh of course

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so

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yeah i was affiliated with mufon for a

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relatively short time

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i actually joined because i attended the

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milwaukee paracon

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in 2016. um they're kind of a long story

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but there have been a short story

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contest that i entered and wanted so i

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was like oh this is fantastic

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um you know i got free tickets and

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everything and there was actually there

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was a table set up for mufon

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and i had been considering joining for a

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very long time because that is

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kind of taking the leap from research to

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investigation

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was what i was looking to do because

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i've always been way more research

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oriented as opposed to

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investigation just because i didn't

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really know exactly how to get started

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with that

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and so you know i spoke i believe i

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think it was

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chase klatsky was there at that time and

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i spoke with her and she was like yeah

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you should join the organization

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so i literally went home after the

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weekend and looked into it and joined

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and that it was actually i took my

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training for the field investigator

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course and then it was i think either a

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year or two later that i

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actually finalized my paperwork for it

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and so yeah i joined on

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again it was a very short time i think i

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was a certified field investigator

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probably for about a year and a half if

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i'm remembering correctly

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and in that time i was i was promoted to

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assistant state director and then state

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director very quickly

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and there were i would say that there

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were some

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intriguing cases more often than not

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though the thing that really gets me is

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to see the effect that this phenomenon

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tends to have on people

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and so the one that stands out in my

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memory um

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was this guy and his his sighting i will

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say it wasn't anything

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you know it wasn't like the martians

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were landing quote unquote

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but you know he had such an effect from

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his sighting

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and he wished to remain anonymous so of

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course i you know

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have never talked about like who he

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actually was or whatever but

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when he finished describing what had

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happened to him you know i

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went through and it was very just you

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know it was pretty pretty far off

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sighting but yeah some strange

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thing that was unexplained and

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i asked him i was like well okay yeah

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you know this sounds like it wasn't

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any of our usual suspects for it being

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some sort of

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misidentification or natural phenomena

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and i was like but do you have any other

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questions

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you know before i finalize this

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interview and he just

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he straight up asked he was like so what

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was it and

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it was just it was really seeing that

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effect on the witness where you know

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there are so many people who

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i believe more often than not more

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people than not will at some point their

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lives have

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some sort of interaction with the

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unexplained whether it's you know ghost

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activity c encrypted

284
00:09:19,030 --> 00:09:17,120
um ufos even just esp phenomena

285
00:09:21,030 --> 00:09:19,040
and i think with many of these people it

286
00:09:23,350 --> 00:09:21,040
really is unexpected and it can

287
00:09:24,310 --> 00:09:23,360
call kind of normal reality into

288
00:09:26,150 --> 00:09:24,320
question

289
00:09:27,670 --> 00:09:26,160
and so it was really interesting to kind

290
00:09:29,110 --> 00:09:27,680
of see that effect and he really did

291
00:09:30,310 --> 00:09:29,120
simply just want to know what it was

292
00:09:32,150 --> 00:09:30,320
that he witnessed

293
00:09:33,990 --> 00:09:32,160
and of course you know i had the rather

294
00:09:35,350 --> 00:09:34,000
unsatisfactory answer well we don't

295
00:09:37,750 --> 00:09:35,360
really know

296
00:09:39,670 --> 00:09:37,760
and so that was probably one of the most

297
00:09:40,310 --> 00:09:39,680
interesting cases i handled i'm simply

298
00:09:43,910 --> 00:09:40,320
because of

299
00:09:44,870 --> 00:09:43,920
again the witness effect yeah and i mean

300
00:09:47,430 --> 00:09:44,880
that's what i'm

301
00:09:48,310 --> 00:09:47,440
all about anyone who knows my work knows

302
00:09:50,230 --> 00:09:48,320
uh i am

303
00:09:51,430 --> 00:09:50,240
more about the witness than the actual

304
00:09:53,110 --> 00:09:51,440
event itself

305
00:09:55,910 --> 00:09:53,120
and like you said how it impacts

306
00:09:57,110 --> 00:09:55,920
someone's life and it does in so many

307
00:10:00,150 --> 00:09:57,120
different ways

308
00:10:01,910 --> 00:10:00,160
i mean their belief system uh you know

309
00:10:04,790 --> 00:10:01,920
their family dynamics

310
00:10:06,790 --> 00:10:04,800
uh how they view and perceive the world

311
00:10:08,069 --> 00:10:06,800
before and after an event like this and

312
00:10:11,269 --> 00:10:08,079
i think you're right i think

313
00:10:13,030 --> 00:10:11,279
everyone in some way shape or form has

314
00:10:15,350 --> 00:10:13,040
had a brush with the unknown

315
00:10:16,710 --> 00:10:15,360
i mean i can't tell you how many people

316
00:10:20,069 --> 00:10:16,720
after that you know whole

317
00:10:20,550 --> 00:10:20,079
new york times story exploded about ufos

318
00:10:23,750 --> 00:10:20,560
and

319
00:10:25,509 --> 00:10:23,760
the pentagon back in 2017 how many

320
00:10:27,110 --> 00:10:25,519
people finally came forward to me and

321
00:10:27,670 --> 00:10:27,120
we're like oh yeah i saw something i saw

322
00:10:29,350 --> 00:10:27,680
something

323
00:10:31,990 --> 00:10:29,360
and i think that's what it takes you

324
00:10:34,069 --> 00:10:32,000
know to uh take these things seriously

325
00:10:35,190 --> 00:10:34,079
there might be someone watching this

326
00:10:37,590 --> 00:10:35,200
interview tonight or

327
00:10:39,590 --> 00:10:37,600
listening who the thought never crossed

328
00:10:40,870 --> 00:10:39,600
their mind but they said i'll check this

329
00:10:43,110 --> 00:10:40,880
out and then boom

330
00:10:44,310 --> 00:10:43,120
there's one more person who is going to

331
00:10:47,350 --> 00:10:44,320
make this topic

332
00:10:49,750 --> 00:10:47,360
these topics uh normalized so

333
00:10:50,630 --> 00:10:49,760
i think that's awesome and i think uh

334
00:10:55,509 --> 00:10:50,640
that

335
00:10:57,350 --> 00:10:55,519
ask you what is it what did i experience

336
00:10:59,750 --> 00:10:57,360
the most responsible answer any

337
00:11:02,230 --> 00:10:59,760
investigator can truly give i believe

338
00:11:02,790 --> 00:11:02,240
is i don't know because i don't think

339
00:11:05,829 --> 00:11:02,800
any of us

340
00:11:08,150 --> 00:11:05,839
truly know what is going on we can

341
00:11:08,949 --> 00:11:08,160
try to explain it we can try to find

342
00:11:11,590 --> 00:11:08,959
answers

343
00:11:13,030 --> 00:11:11,600
and hey if you can awesome like that's

344
00:11:27,030 --> 00:11:13,040
case closed but

345
00:11:31,990 --> 00:11:29,670
and kind available move on from that and

346
00:11:33,910 --> 00:11:32,000
do your own thing

347
00:11:35,750 --> 00:11:33,920
a lot of it had to do with you know i

348
00:11:37,590 --> 00:11:35,760
was kind of developing my own brand of

349
00:11:39,910 --> 00:11:37,600
what i wanted to look out for

350
00:11:41,509 --> 00:11:39,920
and so you know my current research i'm

351
00:11:43,910 --> 00:11:41,519
really really interested

352
00:11:45,030 --> 00:11:43,920
in not to say a unified field theory for

353
00:11:47,509 --> 00:11:45,040
the paranormal the kind

354
00:11:48,870 --> 00:11:47,519
i really like cases that seem to kind of

355
00:11:49,269 --> 00:11:48,880
transcend the boundaries that we've put

356
00:11:50,710 --> 00:11:49,279
up

357
00:11:52,870 --> 00:11:50,720
between these apparently different

358
00:11:55,509 --> 00:11:52,880
categories and so i was

359
00:11:56,069 --> 00:11:55,519
you know that was kind of where i wanted

360
00:11:57,590 --> 00:11:56,079
to head

361
00:11:59,190 --> 00:11:57,600
um i didn't want to really be like

362
00:12:00,230 --> 00:11:59,200
commit myself to any one particular

363
00:12:02,230 --> 00:12:00,240
category

364
00:12:04,629 --> 00:12:02,240
and you know truthfully to the caseload

365
00:12:06,150 --> 00:12:04,639
was a little difficult to handle um at

366
00:12:08,230 --> 00:12:06,160
the time that i left i think wisconsin

367
00:12:10,470 --> 00:12:08,240
only had like four or five investigators

368
00:12:11,269 --> 00:12:10,480
and a few of them couldn't take cases so

369
00:12:15,110 --> 00:12:11,279
it was

370
00:12:17,269 --> 00:12:15,120
know the truth is i was really happy to

371
00:12:18,470 --> 00:12:17,279
be part of the organization um

372
00:12:19,910 --> 00:12:18,480
there's been a lot of stuff that's gone

373
00:12:20,870 --> 00:12:19,920
down in the past year with it which is

374
00:12:22,949 --> 00:12:20,880
unfortunate

375
00:12:23,990 --> 00:12:22,959
um but no i think that a lot of the

376
00:12:25,350 --> 00:12:24,000
investigators are

377
00:12:27,190 --> 00:12:25,360
definitely in it for the right reasons a

378
00:12:28,389 --> 00:12:27,200
lot of them want to know

379
00:12:30,470 --> 00:12:28,399
you know trying to figure out what this

380
00:12:32,470 --> 00:12:30,480
phenomenon is so you know

381
00:12:33,750 --> 00:12:32,480
i did appreciate my time there and it

382
00:12:35,670 --> 00:12:33,760
just kind of

383
00:12:36,870 --> 00:12:35,680
my time to kind of move on and devote

384
00:12:40,150 --> 00:12:36,880
more time to

385
00:12:42,550 --> 00:12:40,160
my particular research so right and

386
00:12:43,990 --> 00:12:42,560
i mean that that research is very unique

387
00:12:45,829 --> 00:12:44,000
and there's definitely some

388
00:12:47,509 --> 00:12:45,839
some things i really want to dive deep

389
00:12:49,110 --> 00:12:47,519
in with you um

390
00:12:51,110 --> 00:12:49,120
some of these people that i know that

391
00:12:53,269 --> 00:12:51,120
you're you've kind of

392
00:12:55,190 --> 00:12:53,279
really read up on the literature of what

393
00:12:57,750 --> 00:12:55,200
their they've brought forward and how

394
00:12:59,990 --> 00:12:57,760
to infuse it into your own research and

395
00:13:03,990 --> 00:13:00,000
investigations but before that

396
00:13:07,030 --> 00:13:04,000
i i would love to know zelia's top

397
00:13:07,590 --> 00:13:07,040
three ufo cases we live in a world of

398
00:13:09,829 --> 00:13:07,600
lists

399
00:13:10,790 --> 00:13:09,839
people love top five top 10 boom boom

400
00:13:12,870 --> 00:13:10,800
boom so

401
00:13:14,310 --> 00:13:12,880
um yeah what do you have for us are

402
00:13:15,990 --> 00:13:14,320
there any cases

403
00:13:17,350 --> 00:13:16,000
that whether you've read about or

404
00:13:19,590 --> 00:13:17,360
personally investigated

405
00:13:21,829 --> 00:13:19,600
um give us your top three if you don't

406
00:13:23,910 --> 00:13:21,839
mind celia take your time

407
00:13:25,030 --> 00:13:23,920
okay i will say this was a difficult

408
00:13:26,710 --> 00:13:25,040
question because

409
00:13:28,550 --> 00:13:26,720
my top three in anything i'm very

410
00:13:29,509 --> 00:13:28,560
indecisive it's kind of constantly

411
00:13:32,150 --> 00:13:29,519
changing

412
00:13:32,629 --> 00:13:32,160
so for today though and i will preface

413
00:13:35,670 --> 00:13:32,639
this

414
00:13:36,230 --> 00:13:35,680
my top three ufo cases it has mainly to

415
00:13:38,949 --> 00:13:36,240
do

416
00:13:40,470 --> 00:13:38,959
in a sense with kind of this level of um

417
00:13:42,310 --> 00:13:40,480
absurdity or whimsy

418
00:13:43,910 --> 00:13:42,320
i find that it's really interesting that

419
00:13:47,269 --> 00:13:43,920
this comes up so often

420
00:13:50,069 --> 00:13:47,279
in these ufo reports so number three

421
00:13:51,030 --> 00:13:50,079
is going to be the so-called beer can

422
00:13:52,550 --> 00:13:51,040
aliens

423
00:13:53,829 --> 00:13:52,560
um even though technically the witness

424
00:13:54,790 --> 00:13:53,839
said they looked a little bit more like

425
00:13:57,189 --> 00:13:54,800
tin cans

426
00:13:59,350 --> 00:13:57,199
apparently in long prairie minnesota um

427
00:14:01,030 --> 00:13:59,360
in october of 1965 a young man by the

428
00:14:03,030 --> 00:14:01,040
name of jerry townsend who

429
00:14:05,430 --> 00:14:03,040
you know according to all reports was an

430
00:14:07,030 --> 00:14:05,440
honest decent guy he was a host of local

431
00:14:09,030 --> 00:14:07,040
radio station

432
00:14:10,550 --> 00:14:09,040
rounded a corner of the road and saw

433
00:14:13,430 --> 00:14:10,560
this classic

434
00:14:14,230 --> 00:14:13,440
rocket ship in the middle of the road

435
00:14:15,750 --> 00:14:14,240
and

436
00:14:17,269 --> 00:14:15,760
his first thought was that no one would

437
00:14:18,150 --> 00:14:17,279
believe him so he wanted to actually tip

438
00:14:21,269 --> 00:14:18,160
it over

439
00:14:24,230 --> 00:14:21,279
and maintain the evidence well his car

440
00:14:25,430 --> 00:14:24,240
shorted out long story short when he got

441
00:14:26,629 --> 00:14:25,440
out of the car to get a better look

442
00:14:29,670 --> 00:14:26,639
these little

443
00:14:32,069 --> 00:14:29,680
robotic tin can things

444
00:14:33,189 --> 00:14:32,079
came out of the rocket and started

445
00:14:34,790 --> 00:14:33,199
moving around almost like they were

446
00:14:37,910 --> 00:14:34,800
working on the machine now again this

447
00:14:39,990 --> 00:14:37,920
this case sounds very absurd um

448
00:14:40,949 --> 00:14:40,000
but i find it just intriguing because

449
00:14:43,189 --> 00:14:40,959
it's so

450
00:14:44,230 --> 00:14:43,199
it's almost so cliche that it seems

451
00:14:47,269 --> 00:14:44,240
unreal

452
00:14:49,269 --> 00:14:47,279
and so he he drove off and

453
00:14:50,550 --> 00:14:49,279
reported it to the police and apparently

454
00:14:52,629 --> 00:14:50,560
there was some trace evidence of this

455
00:14:55,350 --> 00:14:52,639
odd oily substance on the ground but

456
00:14:57,110 --> 00:14:55,360
according to some reports the road was

457
00:14:59,350 --> 00:14:57,120
actually paved over shortly thereafter

458
00:15:02,069 --> 00:14:59,360
so rather interesting

459
00:15:03,509 --> 00:15:02,079
um this my second in the top three is

460
00:15:04,710 --> 00:15:03,519
going to be the kelly hopkinsville

461
00:15:06,590 --> 00:15:04,720
encounter which of course

462
00:15:09,990 --> 00:15:06,600
is infamous it occurred in august of

463
00:15:14,470 --> 00:15:12,949
one of my favorites and i mean the the

464
00:15:15,829 --> 00:15:14,480
facts of the case are well known by now

465
00:15:18,389 --> 00:15:15,839
the initial sighting

466
00:15:19,910 --> 00:15:18,399
was of this strange classic flying

467
00:15:21,590 --> 00:15:19,920
saucer that was shooting out rainbow

468
00:15:22,470 --> 00:15:21,600
colored flames and this was observed by

469
00:15:25,030 --> 00:15:22,480
a man named

470
00:15:26,710 --> 00:15:25,040
billy ray taylor said saucer apparently

471
00:15:28,389 --> 00:15:26,720
dropped into a gully out of sight

472
00:15:29,590 --> 00:15:28,399
he went inside to the sutton family

473
00:15:30,629 --> 00:15:29,600
household this of course occurred in

474
00:15:32,389 --> 00:15:30,639
kentucky

475
00:15:33,829 --> 00:15:32,399
and no one believed him they thought he

476
00:15:35,749 --> 00:15:33,839
was you know just joking

477
00:15:36,870 --> 00:15:35,759
until later that night when the house

478
00:15:39,990 --> 00:15:36,880
was besieged

479
00:15:42,629 --> 00:15:40,000
by these little luminous silver

480
00:15:44,069 --> 00:15:42,639
goblins for lack of a better term and

481
00:15:46,310 --> 00:15:44,079
again this is just

482
00:15:47,910 --> 00:15:46,320
one of my all-time favorite cases simply

483
00:15:50,710 --> 00:15:47,920
because

484
00:15:51,350 --> 00:15:50,720
it's it is it's so weird you have this

485
00:15:53,670 --> 00:15:51,360
very like

486
00:15:55,509 --> 00:15:53,680
monster-like attack these hobgoblins

487
00:15:57,590 --> 00:15:55,519
coming after the house in waves

488
00:15:59,110 --> 00:15:57,600
um apparently they tried shooting at the

489
00:16:00,150 --> 00:15:59,120
beast at point-blank range and the most

490
00:16:01,189 --> 00:16:00,160
they ever did because of course they

491
00:16:04,069 --> 00:16:01,199
could float in the air

492
00:16:05,749 --> 00:16:04,079
because why not was kind of flip over

493
00:16:07,749 --> 00:16:05,759
and run away i know right

494
00:16:08,550 --> 00:16:07,759
and you know the attacks continued

495
00:16:09,350 --> 00:16:08,560
through the night they got the

496
00:16:10,790 --> 00:16:09,360
authorities

497
00:16:12,150 --> 00:16:10,800
of course they stopped as soon as they

498
00:16:13,269 --> 00:16:12,160
were there the authorities left they

499
00:16:15,030 --> 00:16:13,279
came back

500
00:16:17,509 --> 00:16:15,040
you know it just it sounded like sheer

501
00:16:18,629 --> 00:16:17,519
madness and the fact that too

502
00:16:20,790 --> 00:16:18,639
because of course as we'll get into a

503
00:16:21,990 --> 00:16:20,800
bit later the connection between fairy

504
00:16:23,829 --> 00:16:22,000
lore and ufos

505
00:16:25,350 --> 00:16:23,839
is of huge interest to me and so even

506
00:16:28,310 --> 00:16:25,360
the fact that they were branded

507
00:16:29,590 --> 00:16:28,320
as the kelly hobgoblins or the hopkins

508
00:16:31,829 --> 00:16:29,600
the hobgoblins

509
00:16:32,870 --> 00:16:31,839
is just seriously one of my favorite

510
00:16:35,829 --> 00:16:32,880
things

511
00:16:38,150 --> 00:16:35,839
but number one on my list and this

512
00:16:41,590 --> 00:16:38,160
actually is rather unchanging

513
00:16:44,470 --> 00:16:41,600
is the simonton encounter um

514
00:16:46,230 --> 00:16:44,480
yes this is my all-time favorite case it

515
00:16:47,189 --> 00:16:46,240
happened in eagle river wisconsin which

516
00:16:49,269 --> 00:16:47,199
kind of just

517
00:16:51,670 --> 00:16:49,279
you know ups the fact that it is my know

518
00:16:54,790 --> 00:16:51,680
all-time favorite case of yoho contact

519
00:16:56,230 --> 00:16:54,800
um and that was in april of 1961 a

520
00:16:57,110 --> 00:16:56,240
chicken farmer by the name of joe

521
00:16:59,590 --> 00:16:57,120
simonton

522
00:17:01,350 --> 00:16:59,600
was eating his breakfast when all of a

523
00:17:03,030 --> 00:17:01,360
sudden he heard this noise coming from

524
00:17:05,429 --> 00:17:03,040
outside his house he described as like

525
00:17:08,470 --> 00:17:05,439
knobby tires on wet pavement

526
00:17:11,429 --> 00:17:08,480
and looking outside he saw this really

527
00:17:12,470 --> 00:17:11,439
again this classic kind of you know high

528
00:17:15,029 --> 00:17:12,480
mid-century

529
00:17:16,069 --> 00:17:15,039
sort of flying object he said it looked

530
00:17:18,309 --> 00:17:16,079
like two bowls

531
00:17:19,350 --> 00:17:18,319
um this bright shiny silver had exhaust

532
00:17:22,230 --> 00:17:19,360
pipes

533
00:17:23,189 --> 00:17:22,240
and it was hovering over his backyard

534
00:17:25,510 --> 00:17:23,199
and so

535
00:17:26,789 --> 00:17:25,520
like any you know sane person i guess he

536
00:17:29,029 --> 00:17:26,799
walked outside

537
00:17:30,950 --> 00:17:29,039
really close to it for a closer look and

538
00:17:31,990 --> 00:17:30,960
this hatch opened up in the side of the

539
00:17:34,549 --> 00:17:32,000
object and he said that

540
00:17:35,350 --> 00:17:34,559
there were three short men who he

541
00:17:38,549 --> 00:17:35,360
claimed looked like

542
00:17:40,870 --> 00:17:38,559
italians inside the object and

543
00:17:42,310 --> 00:17:40,880
one of them who he assumed was the

544
00:17:44,150 --> 00:17:42,320
leader of the bunch

545
00:17:45,669 --> 00:17:44,160
um he claimed that he actually his pants

546
00:17:46,710 --> 00:17:45,679
had like a jogger stripe down the side

547
00:17:48,150 --> 00:17:46,720
which is just

548
00:17:50,310 --> 00:17:48,160
again one of these incredibly strange

549
00:17:52,150 --> 00:17:50,320
and bizarre details um

550
00:17:54,070 --> 00:17:52,160
came to the opening the hatch in the

551
00:17:56,470 --> 00:17:54,080
object and gave him this

552
00:17:57,350 --> 00:17:56,480
little chalice or cup of some sort that

553
00:18:00,549 --> 00:17:57,360
was of the same

554
00:18:02,630 --> 00:18:00,559
bright silver material as the saucer

555
00:18:03,750 --> 00:18:02,640
and somehow simon tin claimed that he

556
00:18:06,070 --> 00:18:03,760
realized that they needed

557
00:18:07,590 --> 00:18:06,080
water and whether this was telepathic

558
00:18:08,310 --> 00:18:07,600
communication or just body language

559
00:18:09,590 --> 00:18:08,320
whether

560
00:18:10,950 --> 00:18:09,600
maybe they didn't even need water and he

561
00:18:11,510 --> 00:18:10,960
just assumed they did i don't really

562
00:18:13,510 --> 00:18:11,520
know

563
00:18:15,350 --> 00:18:13,520
but so simon tin apparently completely

564
00:18:16,789 --> 00:18:15,360
non-plussed by this whole thing

565
00:18:18,390 --> 00:18:16,799
walked back to the house got him some

566
00:18:21,190 --> 00:18:18,400
water and came back

567
00:18:21,750 --> 00:18:21,200
and when he gave the entity the water he

568
00:18:24,150 --> 00:18:21,760
said that

569
00:18:25,830 --> 00:18:24,160
he looked in and saw what he described

570
00:18:29,270 --> 00:18:25,840
as one of these entities cooking

571
00:18:32,390 --> 00:18:29,280
something over a flameless grill and

572
00:18:33,510 --> 00:18:32,400
so apparently the lead entity um took

573
00:18:35,510 --> 00:18:33,520
his interest for

574
00:18:37,029 --> 00:18:35,520
a desire for samples and simonton was

575
00:18:39,190 --> 00:18:37,039
indeed given

576
00:18:40,950 --> 00:18:39,200
these as they have come to be called

577
00:18:42,950 --> 00:18:40,960
alien pancakes

578
00:18:44,950 --> 00:18:42,960
to him then i looked up and i handed the

579
00:18:47,270 --> 00:18:44,960
jug up with both hands

580
00:18:50,070 --> 00:18:47,280
and i had that same look in his eyes a

581
00:18:53,270 --> 00:18:50,080
sort of a penetrating look

582
00:18:56,230 --> 00:18:53,280
and uh when he took the water

583
00:18:57,990 --> 00:18:56,240
i balanced myself with this hand against

584
00:18:59,430 --> 00:18:58,000
the machine and i stepped back a few

585
00:19:02,870 --> 00:18:59,440
steps

586
00:19:05,990 --> 00:19:02,880
and then uh with that

587
00:19:07,510 --> 00:19:06,000
he set the jug down and he gave me a

588
00:19:10,630 --> 00:19:07,520
salute with the back of his hand

589
00:19:10,950 --> 00:19:10,640
a gesture of thanks i presume and then

590
00:19:12,710 --> 00:19:10,960
uh

591
00:19:14,390 --> 00:19:12,720
well i gave you my salute what am i

592
00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:14,400
gonna do

593
00:19:20,150 --> 00:19:17,760
so uh i noticed this little man

594
00:19:21,909 --> 00:19:20,160
the same size of a man right beside the

595
00:19:24,710 --> 00:19:21,919
right side of the hatchway cooking

596
00:19:26,549 --> 00:19:24,720
uh cooking these pancakes which i have

597
00:19:30,070 --> 00:19:26,559
one here yet

598
00:19:33,510 --> 00:19:30,080
uh he was he was frying these

599
00:19:35,909 --> 00:19:33,520
these pancakes and uh

600
00:19:36,630 --> 00:19:35,919
i pointed to him and made a gesture like

601
00:19:38,789 --> 00:19:36,640
eating

602
00:19:41,750 --> 00:19:38,799
i thought maybe i get a conversation out

603
00:19:45,190 --> 00:19:41,760
of them nobody was saying anything

604
00:19:46,789 --> 00:19:45,200
but he uh he didn't say a word he just

605
00:19:49,029 --> 00:19:46,799
restored and he got a handful

606
00:19:51,590 --> 00:19:49,039
before him and he handed them down to me

607
00:19:54,789 --> 00:19:51,600
and they were hot and greasy

608
00:19:56,630 --> 00:19:54,799
and this uh man cooking these pancakes

609
00:19:59,029 --> 00:19:56,640
it was on a square

610
00:20:00,870 --> 00:19:59,039
uh grill like concern i couldn't see any

611
00:20:02,630 --> 00:20:00,880
flame but it seemed to be very hot there

612
00:20:06,549 --> 00:20:02,640
was smoke coming from it

613
00:20:08,390 --> 00:20:06,559
and if that was their food god help them

614
00:20:09,350 --> 00:20:08,400
because i took a bite of one of them and

615
00:20:12,470 --> 00:20:09,360
it tasted like

616
00:20:14,870 --> 00:20:12,480
a piece of cardboard and that's what

617
00:20:16,310 --> 00:20:14,880
they lived all no wonder they're small

618
00:20:17,990 --> 00:20:16,320
and with that he reached up and he

619
00:20:20,390 --> 00:20:18,000
closed his hat

620
00:20:21,190 --> 00:20:20,400
with a heavy thud click like when it

621
00:20:23,190 --> 00:20:21,200
latched

622
00:20:25,029 --> 00:20:23,200
and you couldn't a bit more see where

623
00:20:27,029 --> 00:20:25,039
that hatch was and you could see a hole

624
00:20:29,430 --> 00:20:27,039
in my hand

625
00:20:30,950 --> 00:20:29,440
and uh with that the thing started to

626
00:20:32,789 --> 00:20:30,960
raise it's like it came down

627
00:20:34,070 --> 00:20:32,799
everything was time perfect it went up

628
00:20:37,669 --> 00:20:34,080
about 20 feet

629
00:20:39,990 --> 00:20:37,679
it killed at 45 degrees straight south

630
00:20:42,070 --> 00:20:40,000
and shot off and within two or three

631
00:20:43,990 --> 00:20:42,080
seconds it was out of sight

632
00:20:46,630 --> 00:20:44,000
well there i stood in the driveway with

633
00:20:47,270 --> 00:20:46,640
a handful of greasy pancakes my mouth

634
00:20:49,190 --> 00:20:47,280
open

635
00:20:51,669 --> 00:20:49,200
wondering what the heck i saw what has

636
00:20:54,870 --> 00:20:51,679
happened i love this case so much

637
00:20:55,510 --> 00:20:54,880
it's amazing yeah and this again just

638
00:20:57,110 --> 00:20:55,520
leads

639
00:20:58,549 --> 00:20:57,120
so into all of the fairy lore stuff

640
00:21:00,070 --> 00:20:58,559
because i know valet talked about this

641
00:21:02,549 --> 00:21:00,080
case extensively

642
00:21:04,230 --> 00:21:02,559
um and it's hilarious but actually in

643
00:21:05,669 --> 00:21:04,240
the edge of reality that compendium of

644
00:21:06,630 --> 00:21:05,679
some of his discussions with jalen

645
00:21:08,950 --> 00:21:06,640
heineck

646
00:21:10,070 --> 00:21:08,960
um he mentioned the simon encounter and

647
00:21:10,870 --> 00:21:10,080
heidi didn't really remember what was

648
00:21:12,310 --> 00:21:10,880
and so

649
00:21:14,549 --> 00:21:12,320
he kind of kept explaining and heineck

650
00:21:17,669 --> 00:21:14,559
goes oh the gentleman in wisconsin with

651
00:21:20,149 --> 00:21:17,679
the pancakes

652
00:21:20,950 --> 00:21:20,159
it's it's i mean here's the thing i mean

653
00:21:27,669 --> 00:21:20,960
he

654
00:21:29,270 --> 00:21:27,679
interstellar pancakes well and first of

655
00:21:32,070 --> 00:21:29,280
all too barring any concerns of alien

656
00:21:33,830 --> 00:21:32,080
viruses or radiation or anything

657
00:21:35,830 --> 00:21:33,840
yes he did indeed he sent a few off for

658
00:21:38,470 --> 00:21:35,840
analysis which was interesting

659
00:21:41,110 --> 00:21:38,480
um angela tried one and his verdict was

660
00:21:43,990 --> 00:21:41,120
that they tasted like cardboard

661
00:21:44,950 --> 00:21:44,000
all right so not the best breakfast

662
00:21:48,230 --> 00:21:44,960
cooks out there

663
00:21:50,549 --> 00:21:48,240
unfortunately not i will be an

664
00:21:51,110 --> 00:21:50,559
interstellar pancake cafe anytime soon i

665
00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:51,120
guess

666
00:21:54,789 --> 00:21:53,280
not any time i know i know that's

667
00:21:56,230 --> 00:21:54,799
unfortunate but hey they got better

668
00:21:59,430 --> 00:21:56,240
stuff to do apparently

669
00:22:02,630 --> 00:21:59,440
um well let's let's touch on that okay

670
00:22:03,590 --> 00:22:02,640
pancakes um not pancakes specifically

671
00:22:05,510 --> 00:22:03,600
but

672
00:22:07,110 --> 00:22:05,520
artifacts i know this is something that

673
00:22:10,230 --> 00:22:07,120
you've looked at in the past

674
00:22:12,310 --> 00:22:10,240
um or or uh gifting

675
00:22:13,510 --> 00:22:12,320
is another term that we've heard in the

676
00:22:16,149 --> 00:22:13,520
field as well

677
00:22:18,390 --> 00:22:16,159
um i'd love to get your thoughts on this

678
00:22:22,070 --> 00:22:18,400
things that are either exchanged

679
00:22:23,750 --> 00:22:22,080
during these really absurd encounters

680
00:22:27,590 --> 00:22:23,760
with occupants from

681
00:22:28,630 --> 00:22:27,600
said ufos um or we've even heard these

682
00:22:30,950 --> 00:22:28,640
theories of

683
00:22:32,230 --> 00:22:30,960
of gifting us technology and knowledge

684
00:22:35,990 --> 00:22:32,240
through either

685
00:22:37,270 --> 00:22:36,000
abduction cases or uh or crashes

686
00:22:39,669 --> 00:22:37,280
even i mean there's people out there

687
00:22:40,630 --> 00:22:39,679
that believe they purposefully crashed

688
00:22:43,190 --> 00:22:40,640
some of their

689
00:22:43,830 --> 00:22:43,200
their craft on our planet so that we

690
00:22:45,669 --> 00:22:43,840
could

691
00:22:47,029 --> 00:22:45,679
try to reverse engineer the technology

692
00:22:48,789 --> 00:22:47,039
and come to understand it

693
00:22:50,549 --> 00:22:48,799
i don't know how much i personally buy

694
00:22:52,230 --> 00:22:50,559
into something like that but celia i'd

695
00:22:54,390 --> 00:22:52,240
love to get your thoughts on this

696
00:22:55,430 --> 00:22:54,400
this whole thing of the artifacts that

697
00:22:57,430 --> 00:22:55,440
these beings

698
00:22:59,110 --> 00:22:57,440
often leave behind why do you think this

699
00:23:01,190 --> 00:22:59,120
happens

700
00:23:02,870 --> 00:23:01,200
you know it's really it's intriguing

701
00:23:04,230 --> 00:23:02,880
because you know i for one

702
00:23:06,310 --> 00:23:04,240
i believe first of all that there is

703
00:23:07,750 --> 00:23:06,320
more than one right answer um to many of

704
00:23:09,190 --> 00:23:07,760
the questions posed by any different

705
00:23:11,029 --> 00:23:09,200
apparent type of paranormal phenomena

706
00:23:11,830 --> 00:23:11,039
and the ufo phenomenon is no exception

707
00:23:13,990 --> 00:23:11,840
to that

708
00:23:15,270 --> 00:23:14,000
um so i don't discount the concept that

709
00:23:17,270 --> 00:23:15,280
there may be

710
00:23:18,870 --> 00:23:17,280
actual genuine physical extraterrestrial

711
00:23:20,070 --> 00:23:18,880
beings traveling in interplanetary

712
00:23:21,909 --> 00:23:20,080
vehicles

713
00:23:24,070 --> 00:23:21,919
i think that the vast majority of

714
00:23:25,029 --> 00:23:24,080
sightings may be something different

715
00:23:27,909 --> 00:23:25,039
entirely

716
00:23:28,549 --> 00:23:27,919
and you know honestly the the artifacts

717
00:23:30,149 --> 00:23:28,559
given

718
00:23:31,669 --> 00:23:30,159
to people by these occupants or

719
00:23:33,110 --> 00:23:31,679
so-called occupants

720
00:23:34,549 --> 00:23:33,120
sometimes proved to be really good

721
00:23:36,310 --> 00:23:34,559
evidence that um in the case of

722
00:23:37,990 --> 00:23:36,320
simonton's pancakes

723
00:23:39,510 --> 00:23:38,000
you know it's amazing when i first read

724
00:23:41,669 --> 00:23:39,520
this case and i heard the verdict

725
00:23:43,590 --> 00:23:41,679
by the food and drug administration that

726
00:23:45,350 --> 00:23:43,600
the pancakes were composed entirely of

727
00:23:47,029 --> 00:23:45,360
terrestrial ingredients

728
00:23:48,390 --> 00:23:47,039
my first thoughts i read of this case

729
00:23:49,510 --> 00:23:48,400
when i was still looking at

730
00:23:51,750 --> 00:23:49,520
all different types of paranormal

731
00:23:53,750 --> 00:23:51,760
phenomena is very separate my

732
00:23:55,990 --> 00:23:53,760
knee-jerk reaction was that there was

733
00:23:58,630 --> 00:23:56,000
some massive cover-up over these

734
00:24:00,230 --> 00:23:58,640
obviously martian pancakes um to

735
00:24:01,830 --> 00:24:00,240
simplify it quite a bit

736
00:24:03,269 --> 00:24:01,840
and that obviously they weren't made of

737
00:24:05,350 --> 00:24:03,279
terrestrial ingredients and it was just

738
00:24:07,269 --> 00:24:05,360
it's a cover-up as time has gone on

739
00:24:07,990 --> 00:24:07,279
however because indeed the pancakes were

740
00:24:10,549 --> 00:24:08,000
analyzed

741
00:24:12,390 --> 00:24:10,559
to have been made out of buckwheat hulls

742
00:24:14,470 --> 00:24:12,400
a substance like crisco

743
00:24:15,750 --> 00:24:14,480
and i think bran or something like that

744
00:24:16,950 --> 00:24:15,760
and they were all perfectly terrestrial

745
00:24:19,590 --> 00:24:16,960
ingredients

746
00:24:20,549 --> 00:24:19,600
um the way that i look at things now i

747
00:24:23,110 --> 00:24:20,559
think that this is

748
00:24:24,630 --> 00:24:23,120
evidence that some encounters with no

749
00:24:25,909 --> 00:24:24,640
ufos some encounters with crypt some

750
00:24:28,310 --> 00:24:25,919
encounters with ghosts

751
00:24:30,470 --> 00:24:28,320
may be sort of the same phenomena that

752
00:24:31,750 --> 00:24:30,480
these are just simply manifestations

753
00:24:32,950 --> 00:24:31,760
of something that we don't yet

754
00:24:34,470 --> 00:24:32,960
understand something that's been with us

755
00:24:37,269 --> 00:24:34,480
for a very very long time

756
00:24:37,669 --> 00:24:37,279
and especially too if um to look into

757
00:24:41,269 --> 00:24:37,679
this

758
00:24:43,669 --> 00:24:41,279
out the

759
00:24:45,350 --> 00:24:43,679
comparison between that and fairy lore

760
00:24:48,149 --> 00:24:45,360
you know even down to the buckwheat

761
00:24:50,710 --> 00:24:48,159
hulls their actual folkloric accounts of

762
00:24:52,070 --> 00:24:50,720
very similar cakes literally being given

763
00:24:53,909 --> 00:24:52,080
to people by the fairies

764
00:24:55,750 --> 00:24:53,919
um there was an account from the 1600s

765
00:24:57,590 --> 00:24:55,760
that involved what was believed to be a

766
00:24:59,430 --> 00:24:57,600
demonic possession that started

767
00:25:01,190 --> 00:24:59,440
surprisingly enough with a pancake an

768
00:25:02,950 --> 00:25:01,200
unleavened cake

769
00:25:04,950 --> 00:25:02,960
and even the icelandic elves i believe

770
00:25:06,710 --> 00:25:04,960
have connections to pancakes but enough

771
00:25:08,870 --> 00:25:06,720
about pancakes

772
00:25:10,390 --> 00:25:08,880
as far as other artifacts you know keel

773
00:25:12,630 --> 00:25:10,400
really nailed down an operation trojan

774
00:25:14,789 --> 00:25:12,640
horse he called it the artifact game

775
00:25:15,909 --> 00:25:14,799
and well again i don't really discount

776
00:25:17,269 --> 00:25:15,919
anything i think that there is the

777
00:25:18,390 --> 00:25:17,279
potential for

778
00:25:19,830 --> 00:25:18,400
you know like you were saying maybe

779
00:25:21,029 --> 00:25:19,840
there are even genuine vehicles that

780
00:25:22,870 --> 00:25:21,039
have crash maybe

781
00:25:24,470 --> 00:25:22,880
there are genuine artifacts that have

782
00:25:25,430 --> 00:25:24,480
been given to people from these other

783
00:25:27,190 --> 00:25:25,440
intelligences

784
00:25:28,710 --> 00:25:27,200
however i think in the vast majority of

785
00:25:30,630 --> 00:25:28,720
these cases

786
00:25:32,230 --> 00:25:30,640
it is unfortunately almost kind of a

787
00:25:34,230 --> 00:25:32,240
trickster-like element

788
00:25:35,909 --> 00:25:34,240
um you have i mean again simultaneous

789
00:25:36,789 --> 00:25:35,919
pancake is a perfect example you have

790
00:25:37,909 --> 00:25:36,799
something that's supposed to be

791
00:25:38,710 --> 00:25:37,919
extraterrestrial turns out to be

792
00:25:40,870 --> 00:25:38,720
terrestrial

793
00:25:42,390 --> 00:25:40,880
there are other cases where metals that

794
00:25:44,390 --> 00:25:42,400
are supposed to be some sort of fancy

795
00:25:46,870 --> 00:25:44,400
space metal end up simply being

796
00:25:49,029 --> 00:25:46,880
common earth alloys um there was a case

797
00:25:50,870 --> 00:25:49,039
from west virginia i believe in the 30s

798
00:25:52,870 --> 00:25:50,880
where a man walked into what appeared to

799
00:25:55,590 --> 00:25:52,880
be some sort of strange crashed

800
00:25:55,990 --> 00:25:55,600
object and he actually took part of it

801
00:25:58,630 --> 00:25:56,000
and

802
00:25:59,430 --> 00:25:58,640
later in the night this guy who looked

803
00:26:01,590 --> 00:25:59,440
like

804
00:26:02,950 --> 00:26:01,600
a soldier from world war one actually

805
00:26:04,549 --> 00:26:02,960
showed up at his door

806
00:26:06,950 --> 00:26:04,559
and demanded that he hand over the

807
00:26:08,710 --> 00:26:06,960
evidence and if you go into abduction

808
00:26:10,470 --> 00:26:08,720
scenarios betty hill was given a book

809
00:26:13,510 --> 00:26:10,480
that apparently would confirm

810
00:26:14,950 --> 00:26:13,520
her um experience and of course this was

811
00:26:15,669 --> 00:26:14,960
regained through regression hypnosis

812
00:26:17,029 --> 00:26:15,679
which is

813
00:26:18,789 --> 00:26:17,039
a lot of people have a lot of different

814
00:26:20,470 --> 00:26:18,799
ways of thinking about that and then at

815
00:26:23,590 --> 00:26:20,480
the last moment was taken away

816
00:26:24,070 --> 00:26:23,600
i feel like in many of these cases it is

817
00:26:25,830 --> 00:26:24,080
just

818
00:26:27,269 --> 00:26:25,840
evidence of this very trickster-like

819
00:26:28,390 --> 00:26:27,279
element we're given things that are then

820
00:26:30,950 --> 00:26:28,400
taken away or

821
00:26:32,310 --> 00:26:30,960
contradict the claims by the witness so

822
00:26:34,070 --> 00:26:32,320
i think there's there's an overwhelming

823
00:26:36,950 --> 00:26:34,080
aspect of that throughout many of these

824
00:26:38,710 --> 00:26:36,960
cases where evidence is presented

825
00:26:41,350 --> 00:26:38,720
yeah yeah you're right the trickster

826
00:26:42,070 --> 00:26:41,360
element just seems to play such a big

827
00:26:45,269 --> 00:26:42,080
role

828
00:26:46,950 --> 00:26:45,279
and then um you know when you add every

829
00:26:49,430 --> 00:26:46,960
layer on top of that whether it's

830
00:26:50,549 --> 00:26:49,440
you know cultural perception of an

831
00:26:53,830 --> 00:26:50,559
experience

832
00:26:55,430 --> 00:26:53,840
i mean i know for me personally i've

833
00:26:58,149 --> 00:26:55,440
interviewed hundreds of

834
00:26:59,190 --> 00:26:58,159
people who have claimed close encounters

835
00:27:02,390 --> 00:26:59,200
or claimed

836
00:27:03,909 --> 00:27:02,400
abduction experiences and some of them

837
00:27:06,230 --> 00:27:03,919
took it as a spiritual

838
00:27:07,110 --> 00:27:06,240
or miraculous experience it was it was

839
00:27:09,430 --> 00:27:07,120
angelic

840
00:27:11,510 --> 00:27:09,440
and then others say it was demonic and

841
00:27:13,990 --> 00:27:11,520
it was terrible and scary and

842
00:27:16,070 --> 00:27:14,000
others just straight up said nah man

843
00:27:16,789 --> 00:27:16,080
like that was a gray alien abducting me

844
00:27:20,230 --> 00:27:16,799
from

845
00:27:23,590 --> 00:27:20,240
don't know

846
00:27:26,070 --> 00:27:23,600
so i think it's fascinating how much

847
00:27:27,350 --> 00:27:26,080
that culture plays a big role in all

848
00:27:31,029 --> 00:27:27,360
this and um

849
00:27:33,350 --> 00:27:31,039
like you mentioned valet has dug so

850
00:27:34,070 --> 00:27:33,360
deeply into all this in passport to

851
00:27:37,269 --> 00:27:34,080
magonia

852
00:27:40,310 --> 00:27:37,279
and and uh messengers of deception which

853
00:27:42,950 --> 00:27:40,320
i know is a book you you really love

854
00:27:44,389 --> 00:27:42,960
um so yeah what did you take away from

855
00:27:46,389 --> 00:27:44,399
that book with valet

856
00:27:47,669 --> 00:27:46,399
i know we have a lot of students of la

857
00:27:49,510 --> 00:27:47,679
probably watching this

858
00:27:52,389 --> 00:27:49,520
what did you what do you take away most

859
00:27:56,230 --> 00:27:52,399
from valet's work i guess so

860
00:27:59,830 --> 00:27:57,750
oh that's all right that's all right i

861
00:28:00,950 --> 00:27:59,840
mean the first probably the first thing

862
00:28:03,590 --> 00:28:00,960
that occurred to me when

863
00:28:05,269 --> 00:28:03,600
i first started reading vale's work was

864
00:28:05,909 --> 00:28:05,279
the connection between ufos of course

865
00:28:07,110 --> 00:28:05,919
and

866
00:28:09,430 --> 00:28:07,120
ferry lore but even more than that

867
00:28:12,630 --> 00:28:09,440
there's the connection between ufos

868
00:28:13,830 --> 00:28:12,640
and all types of belief in

869
00:28:15,590 --> 00:28:13,840
you know contact with other

870
00:28:16,310 --> 00:28:15,600
intelligences whether it is demonic

871
00:28:20,389 --> 00:28:16,320
whether it is

872
00:28:23,110 --> 00:28:20,399
you know religious even and so that

873
00:28:24,549 --> 00:28:23,120
those patterns were very apparent in his

874
00:28:26,149 --> 00:28:24,559
work so that's probably like the first

875
00:28:28,310 --> 00:28:26,159
thing that occurred to me

876
00:28:29,669 --> 00:28:28,320
but then messengers of deception i do

877
00:28:31,510 --> 00:28:29,679
absolutely i mean

878
00:28:33,750 --> 00:28:31,520
honestly passport begonia messengers of

879
00:28:34,470 --> 00:28:33,760
deception are tied for my favorite valet

880
00:28:37,510 --> 00:28:34,480
book

881
00:28:38,470 --> 00:28:37,520
and that one you know when i first read

882
00:28:45,909 --> 00:28:38,480
it

883
00:28:49,029 --> 00:28:45,919
you know there is a genuine

884
00:28:51,909 --> 00:28:49,039
phenomena happening and i think that

885
00:28:53,110 --> 00:28:51,919
it has been completely not necessarily

886
00:28:54,710 --> 00:28:53,120
ignored but it's always been relegated

887
00:28:56,549 --> 00:28:54,720
kind of to the fringe it's something

888
00:28:57,350 --> 00:28:56,559
that is so integral to the human

889
00:28:58,789 --> 00:28:57,360
experience

890
00:29:00,950 --> 00:28:58,799
i'm not simply ufos with just the

891
00:29:01,590 --> 00:29:00,960
paranormal in general and unfortunately

892
00:29:03,909 --> 00:29:01,600
this really

893
00:29:05,430 --> 00:29:03,919
integral part of the human experience

894
00:29:07,669 --> 00:29:05,440
you know so often

895
00:29:08,549 --> 00:29:07,679
it's kind of just it's trivialized a

896
00:29:10,070 --> 00:29:08,559
little bit

897
00:29:12,389 --> 00:29:10,080
and i really took that away from

898
00:29:14,310 --> 00:29:12,399
messengers of deception that this is

899
00:29:16,230 --> 00:29:14,320
a cultural issue that we need to work

900
00:29:17,669 --> 00:29:16,240
out that it is something that

901
00:29:18,789 --> 00:29:17,679
you know i personally feel that there is

902
00:29:20,230 --> 00:29:18,799
definitely a reflective nature to

903
00:29:21,750 --> 00:29:20,240
paranormal phenomena and i think that

904
00:29:23,110 --> 00:29:21,760
especially with ufos there's a cultural

905
00:29:25,110 --> 00:29:23,120
give and take

906
00:29:26,230 --> 00:29:25,120
and that as much as we are giving some

907
00:29:27,669 --> 00:29:26,240
of our

908
00:29:29,430 --> 00:29:27,679
you know we're almost clothing the

909
00:29:30,870 --> 00:29:29,440
phenomenon in our beliefs of the time i

910
00:29:31,430 --> 00:29:30,880
think the phenomena does go out of its

911
00:29:33,830 --> 00:29:31,440
way

912
00:29:34,710 --> 00:29:33,840
to confirm certain aspects of that um

913
00:29:35,909 --> 00:29:34,720
for what purpose

914
00:29:37,990 --> 00:29:35,919
i don't really know i don't know if

915
00:29:38,630 --> 00:29:38,000
there is genuinely a purpose or if it is

916
00:29:41,590 --> 00:29:38,640
just

917
00:29:42,549 --> 00:29:41,600
the workings of some sort of you know

918
00:29:44,070 --> 00:29:42,559
maybe even

919
00:29:46,149 --> 00:29:44,080
play of consciousness that we don't

920
00:29:47,830 --> 00:29:46,159
completely understand and messengers of

921
00:29:48,630 --> 00:29:47,840
deception really kind of clarified that

922
00:29:50,549 --> 00:29:48,640
for me

923
00:29:51,750 --> 00:29:50,559
um especially that last chapter where he

924
00:29:53,190 --> 00:29:51,760
starts delving into some of the

925
00:29:53,990 --> 00:29:53,200
synchronicities that played out in his

926
00:29:56,870 --> 00:29:54,000
life

927
00:29:58,230 --> 00:29:56,880
it just you know it's it's intriguing

928
00:29:59,190 --> 00:29:58,240
because i know john keel and other my

929
00:30:01,590 --> 00:29:59,200
favorites

930
00:30:02,549 --> 00:30:01,600
um definitely talked about that too how

931
00:30:04,710 --> 00:30:02,559
it seems like

932
00:30:06,470 --> 00:30:04,720
the phenomenon starts taking an interest

933
00:30:09,909 --> 00:30:06,480
in people who have an interest in

934
00:30:13,110 --> 00:30:09,919
it so yeah yeah

935
00:30:14,950 --> 00:30:13,120
yeah i um i actually i pulled a quote

936
00:30:16,310 --> 00:30:14,960
from kiel that i actually put in the

937
00:30:18,789 --> 00:30:16,320
intro of my book

938
00:30:19,430 --> 00:30:18,799
um i'd love to get your thoughts on this

939
00:30:21,669 --> 00:30:19,440
uh

940
00:30:23,110 --> 00:30:21,679
it's if you could look far enough into

941
00:30:24,870 --> 00:30:23,120
the empty sky

942
00:30:26,149 --> 00:30:24,880
you would be able to see the back of

943
00:30:28,470 --> 00:30:26,159
your own head

944
00:30:30,470 --> 00:30:28,480
and that just when i read that one line

945
00:30:33,190 --> 00:30:30,480
it just it spoke to me

946
00:30:33,909 --> 00:30:33,200
so much personally because i was like

947
00:30:36,870 --> 00:30:33,919
hell yeah

948
00:30:37,990 --> 00:30:36,880
man like this whatever this stuff is

949
00:30:41,110 --> 00:30:38,000
we're dealing with

950
00:30:44,149 --> 00:30:41,120
it is so reflective of us as

951
00:30:47,110 --> 00:30:44,159
human beings and uh you know

952
00:30:47,430 --> 00:30:47,120
what we it's like a dance i really feel

953
00:30:49,110 --> 00:30:47,440
like

954
00:30:50,470 --> 00:30:49,120
it's a dance between us and these

955
00:30:53,510 --> 00:30:50,480
phenomena and

956
00:30:53,990 --> 00:30:53,520
uh we bring just as much to it as they

957
00:30:57,190 --> 00:30:54,000
do

958
00:30:57,750 --> 00:30:57,200
um at times i i could be completely off

959
00:31:00,389 --> 00:30:57,760
on that

960
00:31:01,990 --> 00:31:00,399
but um tell us about keo i mean this is

961
00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:02,000
another one of your big

962
00:31:05,669 --> 00:31:04,320
heroes in the field uh from the work

963
00:31:08,470 --> 00:31:05,679
that i've seen you do

964
00:31:09,590 --> 00:31:08,480
uh eight eighth tower obviously is the

965
00:31:12,070 --> 00:31:09,600
big one right

966
00:31:13,669 --> 00:31:12,080
oh yeah that i have to tell you because

967
00:31:15,190 --> 00:31:13,679
again i read strange creatures from time

968
00:31:15,909 --> 00:31:15,200
and space when i was probably eight or

969
00:31:18,149 --> 00:31:15,919
nine

970
00:31:19,430 --> 00:31:18,159
and i did not even realize i just

971
00:31:21,350 --> 00:31:19,440
thought it was another cryptid book

972
00:31:23,430 --> 00:31:21,360
you know and so it was years later i

973
00:31:24,710 --> 00:31:23,440
didn't know who keel was i did i read so

974
00:31:26,389 --> 00:31:24,720
many books at that time

975
00:31:28,789 --> 00:31:26,399
you know it was just in the back catalog

976
00:31:31,110 --> 00:31:28,799
of things i had read when i was a kid

977
00:31:32,950 --> 00:31:31,120
and years later i'm reading you know

978
00:31:34,389 --> 00:31:32,960
strange i think it's now called the most

979
00:31:35,430 --> 00:31:34,399
complete guide of serious beings it's

980
00:31:36,470 --> 00:31:35,440
been published under a few different

981
00:31:38,870 --> 00:31:36,480
titles

982
00:31:40,310 --> 00:31:38,880
and i'm like holy smokes because this

983
00:31:42,630 --> 00:31:40,320
was kind of like my holy grail i

984
00:31:44,310 --> 00:31:42,640
remembered this fantastic cryptid book

985
00:31:46,149 --> 00:31:44,320
and i only remembered a few different

986
00:31:47,669 --> 00:31:46,159
key parts of it um and i

987
00:31:49,029 --> 00:31:47,679
literally i spent years looking for and

988
00:31:50,630 --> 00:31:49,039
all of a sudden i'm reading you know

989
00:31:51,430 --> 00:31:50,640
john keels the complete guide mysterious

990
00:31:53,750 --> 00:31:51,440
things i'm like

991
00:31:56,230 --> 00:31:53,760
this is it so it was years later that i

992
00:31:58,389 --> 00:31:56,240
realized i'd actually read him as a kid

993
00:31:59,509 --> 00:31:58,399
um but no my first my first book

994
00:32:02,630 --> 00:31:59,519
consciously that was

995
00:32:05,909 --> 00:32:02,640
john keel was the mothman prophecies and

996
00:32:07,590 --> 00:32:05,919
i heard that gosh when i was 16 or 17.

997
00:32:09,830 --> 00:32:07,600
and the funny thing is that is not what

998
00:32:11,590 --> 00:32:09,840
really drove home the concept that

999
00:32:13,669 --> 00:32:11,600
different types of paranormal phenomena

1000
00:32:15,110 --> 00:32:13,679
were related for me um that was

1001
00:32:16,789 --> 00:32:15,120
operation trojan horse which i read

1002
00:32:19,590 --> 00:32:16,799
shortly thereafter

1003
00:32:21,590 --> 00:32:19,600
but the eighth tower which was what i

1004
00:32:23,190 --> 00:32:21,600
read after operation trojan horse

1005
00:32:25,430 --> 00:32:23,200
you know i have to tell you again the

1006
00:32:27,430 --> 00:32:25,440
paranormal it's been a constant for me

1007
00:32:28,549 --> 00:32:27,440
i read that book and i had to go on a

1008
00:32:31,190 --> 00:32:28,559
break for like

1009
00:32:32,870 --> 00:32:31,200
two weeks because i found this out much

1010
00:32:35,029 --> 00:32:32,880
later for my friend steve ward

1011
00:32:36,230 --> 00:32:35,039
apparently keel the thing is with the

1012
00:32:38,389 --> 00:32:36,240
eighth towers that half of it is

1013
00:32:40,389 --> 00:32:38,399
fantastic because half of it

1014
00:32:42,230 --> 00:32:40,399
is just strictly theoretical talk it's

1015
00:32:43,509 --> 00:32:42,240
his discussion on his concept of the

1016
00:32:46,789 --> 00:32:43,519
super spectrum

1017
00:32:48,710 --> 00:32:46,799
which is a massive concept for me

1018
00:32:50,470 --> 00:32:48,720
and then the other half of it was really

1019
00:32:53,430 --> 00:32:50,480
depressing it was almost like

1020
00:32:53,830 --> 00:32:53,440
matrix level paranoia you know that

1021
00:32:55,590 --> 00:32:53,840
these

1022
00:32:57,750 --> 00:32:55,600
other intelligences you know literally

1023
00:32:58,950 --> 00:32:57,760
the eighth tower quote unquote rules the

1024
00:33:01,909 --> 00:32:58,960
world and

1025
00:33:03,590 --> 00:33:01,919
it was it was a lot and so for about two

1026
00:33:03,909 --> 00:33:03,600
weeks i was just like okay you know what

1027
00:33:06,230 --> 00:33:03,919
it's

1028
00:33:07,350 --> 00:33:06,240
you're gonna figure things out well

1029
00:33:09,590 --> 00:33:07,360
years later

1030
00:33:10,549 --> 00:33:09,600
my friend steve ward told me that

1031
00:33:12,149 --> 00:33:10,559
apparently the

1032
00:33:13,750 --> 00:33:12,159
publishers had wanted a hook because the

1033
00:33:15,750 --> 00:33:13,760
eighth tower was

1034
00:33:17,269 --> 00:33:15,760
um mainly stuff that was pulled from the

1035
00:33:18,070 --> 00:33:17,279
mothman prophecies before it went to

1036
00:33:20,389 --> 00:33:18,080
press

1037
00:33:21,669 --> 00:33:20,399
and so the publishers still wanted a

1038
00:33:22,710 --> 00:33:21,679
hook they didn't just want this

1039
00:33:24,149 --> 00:33:22,720
theoretical stuff

1040
00:33:25,509 --> 00:33:24,159
and so kiel's like fine i'll give you a

1041
00:33:27,590 --> 00:33:25,519
hook and hook was this insane

1042
00:33:29,909 --> 00:33:27,600
lovecraftian matrix style

1043
00:33:31,509 --> 00:33:29,919
terror trip so but yeah now the eighth

1044
00:33:32,950 --> 00:33:31,519
tower is actually one of my favorites

1045
00:33:33,909 --> 00:33:32,960
it's probably one of my most often

1046
00:33:37,029 --> 00:33:33,919
referenced

1047
00:33:38,950 --> 00:33:37,039
um of kiehl's books that's

1048
00:33:40,070 --> 00:33:38,960
that's pretty cool and yeah i mean it

1049
00:33:41,990 --> 00:33:40,080
was terrifying

1050
00:33:44,149 --> 00:33:42,000
to read that other aspect of the book i

1051
00:33:45,350 --> 00:33:44,159
remember kind of feeling the same way

1052
00:33:48,549 --> 00:33:45,360
like i was like

1053
00:33:49,909 --> 00:33:48,559
oh god um no like this is too much i

1054
00:33:52,149 --> 00:33:49,919
can't go that far

1055
00:33:53,590 --> 00:33:52,159
and i think it's important too to step

1056
00:33:55,990 --> 00:33:53,600
away from these things

1057
00:33:57,029 --> 00:33:56,000
every now and again i mean i know you

1058
00:33:58,710 --> 00:33:57,039
probably have a

1059
00:34:00,230 --> 00:33:58,720
a personal life outside of the

1060
00:34:03,350 --> 00:34:00,240
paranormal and

1061
00:34:06,230 --> 00:34:03,360
ufo research uh like the rest of us

1062
00:34:07,750 --> 00:34:06,240
you know and it's good to step away

1063
00:34:10,069 --> 00:34:07,760
because then you

1064
00:34:10,790 --> 00:34:10,079
gain i think a more of an appreciation

1065
00:34:12,550 --> 00:34:10,800
for

1066
00:34:14,950 --> 00:34:12,560
what you are doing what you are diving

1067
00:34:15,430 --> 00:34:14,960
into and i think it's healthy too i mean

1068
00:34:23,270 --> 00:34:15,440
if

1069
00:34:24,550 --> 00:34:23,280
able to function as a normal adult human

1070
00:34:26,230 --> 00:34:24,560
being but um

1071
00:34:28,470 --> 00:34:26,240
but i mean it's hard to when you have

1072
00:34:31,109 --> 00:34:28,480
people like keel this is another quote

1073
00:34:34,149 --> 00:34:31,119
um that you you would put in one of your

1074
00:34:36,310 --> 00:34:34,159
blog posts which i loved um

1075
00:34:38,470 --> 00:34:36,320
keel said we cannot name the place where

1076
00:34:39,030 --> 00:34:38,480
flying saucers and hairy monsters come

1077
00:34:41,909 --> 00:34:39,040
from

1078
00:34:42,629 --> 00:34:41,919
but we do know where they go the poor

1079
00:34:46,629 --> 00:34:42,639
slobs

1080
00:34:49,669 --> 00:34:46,639
literally melt what does that mean

1081
00:34:51,909 --> 00:34:49,679
i i don't i don't know how to

1082
00:34:54,389 --> 00:34:51,919
interpret that quote but i love it so

1083
00:34:56,790 --> 00:34:54,399
much so what does that mean to you

1084
00:34:57,829 --> 00:34:56,800
well to me personally i as kiel so

1085
00:35:00,950 --> 00:34:57,839
eloquently put

1086
00:35:02,390 --> 00:35:00,960
um it's kind of a reference to the

1087
00:35:03,990 --> 00:35:02,400
apparently temporal nature

1088
00:35:05,589 --> 00:35:04,000
of so many of these manifestations that

1089
00:35:07,990 --> 00:35:05,599
they seem to

1090
00:35:09,109 --> 00:35:08,000
genuinely be around for only a short

1091
00:35:10,550 --> 00:35:09,119
amount of time

1092
00:35:12,950 --> 00:35:10,560
um and almost once their purpose is

1093
00:35:14,950 --> 00:35:12,960
served again as he saw

1094
00:35:16,150 --> 00:35:14,960
perhaps they melt ivan sanderson

1095
00:35:18,150 --> 00:35:16,160
actually thought the same thing

1096
00:35:19,190 --> 00:35:18,160
now i don't know technically if they

1097
00:35:21,510 --> 00:35:19,200
literally melt

1098
00:35:23,430 --> 00:35:21,520
um or if they simply kind of do meld

1099
00:35:25,030 --> 00:35:23,440
away um but i think it is it's

1100
00:35:27,190 --> 00:35:25,040
i love that quote so much too and keel

1101
00:35:28,470 --> 00:35:27,200
his writing style is just it's killer i

1102
00:35:31,430 --> 00:35:28,480
love it so much

1103
00:35:33,670 --> 00:35:31,440
um but i do think i i do tend to think

1104
00:35:35,270 --> 00:35:33,680
that a lot of these manifestations

1105
00:35:36,870 --> 00:35:35,280
are here only for a short amount of time

1106
00:35:37,910 --> 00:35:36,880
and i think that they may even be shaped

1107
00:35:39,990 --> 00:35:37,920
quite a bit

1108
00:35:41,109 --> 00:35:40,000
by the subconscious or conscious of the

1109
00:35:42,390 --> 00:35:41,119
witness or

1110
00:35:43,829 --> 00:35:42,400
even you know if you have a bunch of

1111
00:35:44,710 --> 00:35:43,839
witnesses or even the culture of the

1112
00:35:46,710 --> 00:35:44,720
time

1113
00:35:48,870 --> 00:35:46,720
um and so yeah i think it's a definite

1114
00:35:52,069 --> 00:35:48,880
reference to the very temporary nature

1115
00:35:54,310 --> 00:35:52,079
of these manifestations yeah yeah well

1116
00:35:56,230 --> 00:35:54,320
while we're on that sort of the um the

1117
00:35:58,710 --> 00:35:56,240
temporal nature to all this

1118
00:36:00,630 --> 00:35:58,720
um being that let's say there is some

1119
00:36:03,670 --> 00:36:00,640
sort of

1120
00:36:04,710 --> 00:36:03,680
string theory between all of these ufos

1121
00:36:07,589 --> 00:36:04,720
the paranormal

1122
00:36:08,069 --> 00:36:07,599
cryptids um which i'm completely open to

1123
00:36:11,829 --> 00:36:08,079
and

1124
00:36:13,589 --> 00:36:11,839
you tonight that's unlike any we've

1125
00:36:15,910 --> 00:36:13,599
really done on the show before

1126
00:36:17,190 --> 00:36:15,920
so um i i think people are really gonna

1127
00:36:19,270 --> 00:36:17,200
find this interesting

1128
00:36:21,349 --> 00:36:19,280
i don't usually get into a lot of these

1129
00:36:24,069 --> 00:36:21,359
areas um

1130
00:36:25,349 --> 00:36:24,079
point by point so uh i love that i have

1131
00:36:26,630 --> 00:36:25,359
you here to talk about these things

1132
00:36:30,150 --> 00:36:26,640
because i've been dying

1133
00:36:30,550 --> 00:36:30,160
to cover these things so stone tape

1134
00:36:32,390 --> 00:36:30,560
theory

1135
00:36:34,310 --> 00:36:32,400
is this something you're familiar with

1136
00:36:35,270 --> 00:36:34,320
in the world of the supernatural it's

1137
00:36:38,470 --> 00:36:35,280
it's any

1138
00:36:42,069 --> 00:36:38,480
event a a ghost or a spirit

1139
00:36:44,950 --> 00:36:42,079
um oh yes

1140
00:36:46,310 --> 00:36:44,960
you know and loop like rewinding playing

1141
00:36:49,670 --> 00:36:46,320
rewinding playing

1142
00:36:50,470 --> 00:36:49,680
um so i love to know do you think that

1143
00:36:53,190 --> 00:36:50,480
goes

1144
00:36:55,190 --> 00:36:53,200
for all of this i mean if we're seeing

1145
00:36:58,710 --> 00:36:55,200
let's say the phoenix lights

1146
00:37:01,349 --> 00:36:58,720
in 1997 in phoenix arizona um

1147
00:37:02,069 --> 00:37:01,359
is this the first time that ufo event

1148
00:37:05,270 --> 00:37:02,079
happened

1149
00:37:07,430 --> 00:37:05,280
or has it been replaying you know in our

1150
00:37:08,950 --> 00:37:07,440
own time and space i mean i know that's

1151
00:37:11,589 --> 00:37:08,960
a really weird question but

1152
00:37:12,870 --> 00:37:11,599
what do you think no i i actually love

1153
00:37:14,470 --> 00:37:12,880
that and yeah now that um

1154
00:37:15,910 --> 00:37:14,480
you mentioned that it kind of is in line

1155
00:37:17,589 --> 00:37:15,920
with einstein actually came up for a

1156
00:37:18,710 --> 00:37:17,599
theory of why dowsing might work

1157
00:37:21,270 --> 00:37:18,720
and it was that there's almost like a

1158
00:37:22,950 --> 00:37:21,280
memory of the earth and that the human

1159
00:37:24,230 --> 00:37:22,960
being acts as a conductor through which

1160
00:37:26,870 --> 00:37:24,240
then these rods

1161
00:37:28,550 --> 00:37:26,880
will literally um conduct the energy

1162
00:37:30,390 --> 00:37:28,560
from the memory of the earth and again

1163
00:37:31,670 --> 00:37:30,400
you know really interesting really weird

1164
00:37:34,310 --> 00:37:31,680
kind of vague stuff

1165
00:37:35,750 --> 00:37:34,320
um i think that again i think there's

1166
00:37:36,230 --> 00:37:35,760
more than one right answer to a lot of

1167
00:37:37,750 --> 00:37:36,240
things

1168
00:37:39,349 --> 00:37:37,760
but you know you do see a lot of times

1169
00:37:39,670 --> 00:37:39,359
too with hauntings where it's almost

1170
00:37:41,829 --> 00:37:39,680
like

1171
00:37:42,950 --> 00:37:41,839
there is just kind of a record playing

1172
00:37:44,550 --> 00:37:42,960
on loop on

1173
00:37:46,550 --> 00:37:44,560
you know some people who claim to be

1174
00:37:47,190 --> 00:37:46,560
able to um you know their mediums or

1175
00:37:48,630 --> 00:37:47,200
they have the

1176
00:37:49,829 --> 00:37:48,640
you know psychic ability they claim that

1177
00:37:50,710 --> 00:37:49,839
they'll walk into a place and it's

1178
00:37:53,270 --> 00:37:50,720
actually not

1179
00:37:54,230 --> 00:37:53,280
a ghost or haunting per se they're just

1180
00:37:56,470 --> 00:37:54,240
reading the

1181
00:37:57,990 --> 00:37:56,480
memory or the energies of that area i

1182
00:37:58,790 --> 00:37:58,000
mean it's almost downloading directly

1183
00:38:02,150 --> 00:37:58,800
into

1184
00:38:03,750 --> 00:38:02,160
their minds um i think that i think that

1185
00:38:04,069 --> 00:38:03,760
theory is as good as any and i do think

1186
00:38:06,950 --> 00:38:04,079
too

1187
00:38:08,630 --> 00:38:06,960
that in some of these cases i could

1188
00:38:09,670 --> 00:38:08,640
definitely like even regarding ufos or

1189
00:38:11,510 --> 00:38:09,680
cryptids

1190
00:38:12,710 --> 00:38:11,520
that could definitely be part of it um i

1191
00:38:15,670 --> 00:38:12,720
think that

1192
00:38:16,950 --> 00:38:15,680
there are definitely you know many cases

1193
00:38:17,990 --> 00:38:16,960
where that doesn't seem quite as

1194
00:38:20,470 --> 00:38:18,000
feasible

1195
00:38:22,069 --> 00:38:20,480
but the truth is i one of my only core

1196
00:38:23,750 --> 00:38:22,079
beliefs because somewhere between

1197
00:38:24,950 --> 00:38:23,760
i want to believe and then john keels

1198
00:38:26,069 --> 00:38:24,960
belief is the enemy that's kind of where

1199
00:38:27,750 --> 00:38:26,079
i try to stand

1200
00:38:29,430 --> 00:38:27,760
and but one core belief that i can nail

1201
00:38:31,750 --> 00:38:29,440
down is that i do believe the world is

1202
00:38:32,550 --> 00:38:31,760
a lot stranger and more unconventional

1203
00:38:34,470 --> 00:38:32,560
than we think

1204
00:38:36,390 --> 00:38:34,480
so yeah i can see that being an

1205
00:38:38,710 --> 00:38:36,400
explanation for some things

1206
00:38:40,230 --> 00:38:38,720
yeah i i love that i think you know if

1207
00:38:42,310 --> 00:38:40,240
we did

1208
00:38:44,310 --> 00:38:42,320
find all the answers that we seek in

1209
00:38:46,630 --> 00:38:44,320
this life uh

1210
00:38:48,069 --> 00:38:46,640
i don't think i want personally i i

1211
00:38:50,710 --> 00:38:48,079
think this journey

1212
00:38:52,310 --> 00:38:50,720
and just the weirdness of it all is what

1213
00:38:54,950 --> 00:38:52,320
is most rewarding i think

1214
00:38:55,990 --> 00:38:54,960
and i do i do think that by the end it's

1215
00:38:57,589 --> 00:38:56,000
far stranger

1216
00:39:00,230 --> 00:38:57,599
than just little green men coming from

1217
00:39:03,109 --> 00:39:00,240
another planet or the disembodied spirit

1218
00:39:05,270 --> 00:39:03,119
of someone you loved um i think it goes

1219
00:39:05,750 --> 00:39:05,280
beyond levels we can even imagine which

1220
00:39:08,470 --> 00:39:05,760
is

1221
00:39:09,030 --> 00:39:08,480
exciting scary beautiful awkward

1222
00:39:12,630 --> 00:39:09,040
everything

1223
00:39:13,030 --> 00:39:12,640
in between um but hey hey i think that's

1224
00:39:16,550 --> 00:39:13,040
what's

1225
00:39:22,150 --> 00:39:19,910
this is another really cool thing

1226
00:39:24,150 --> 00:39:22,160
that you're looking into that really

1227
00:39:27,670 --> 00:39:24,160
never crossed my mind

1228
00:39:29,990 --> 00:39:27,680
ufo occupant clothing i don't think

1229
00:39:30,950 --> 00:39:30,000
i've ever heard anyone really discuss

1230
00:39:33,750 --> 00:39:30,960
this you know

1231
00:39:34,310 --> 00:39:33,760
cases of aliens and overalls or a silver

1232
00:39:38,150 --> 00:39:34,320
suit

1233
00:39:39,750 --> 00:39:38,160
or um you know an armor of some sort so

1234
00:39:41,270 --> 00:39:39,760
what is this you're looking into now

1235
00:39:42,550 --> 00:39:41,280
when it comes to occupants in their

1236
00:39:45,750 --> 00:39:42,560
clothing

1237
00:39:46,790 --> 00:39:45,760
so this kind of this you know particular

1238
00:39:48,390 --> 00:39:46,800
aspect

1239
00:39:50,069 --> 00:39:48,400
i kind of arrived at it from two very

1240
00:39:51,589 --> 00:39:50,079
different things and the one is

1241
00:39:53,670 --> 00:39:51,599
aside from the paranormal i have a major

1242
00:39:56,470 --> 00:39:53,680
interest actually in like costuming

1243
00:39:57,190 --> 00:39:56,480
um i just there's something about yeah

1244
00:39:58,470 --> 00:39:57,200
i've always

1245
00:39:59,670 --> 00:39:58,480
halloween's been my favorite holiday

1246
00:40:01,510 --> 00:39:59,680
that's kind of where it started i mean

1247
00:40:04,069 --> 00:40:01,520
even as a kid you know i would just i

1248
00:40:04,790 --> 00:40:04,079
loved dressing up and things like that

1249
00:40:06,630 --> 00:40:04,800
and

1250
00:40:08,470 --> 00:40:06,640
you know as i've grown up i'm really

1251
00:40:09,750 --> 00:40:08,480
intrigued by the concept that you know

1252
00:40:11,270 --> 00:40:09,760
how do we portray ourselves and

1253
00:40:12,870 --> 00:40:11,280
especially you know you see in costuming

1254
00:40:14,470 --> 00:40:12,880
it's meant to convey ideas it's meant to

1255
00:40:15,990 --> 00:40:14,480
convey the character

1256
00:40:17,510 --> 00:40:16,000
and so that interest has always been

1257
00:40:20,309 --> 00:40:17,520
there and

1258
00:40:23,030 --> 00:40:20,319
then i was actually reading about um i

1259
00:40:25,670 --> 00:40:23,040
did a video on the flatwoods monster

1260
00:40:26,790 --> 00:40:25,680
and of course you know it's by now very

1261
00:40:29,750 --> 00:40:26,800
very well known

1262
00:40:31,430 --> 00:40:29,760
um the flatwoods monster was this big

1263
00:40:32,870 --> 00:40:31,440
you know it was kind of almost robotic

1264
00:40:34,950 --> 00:40:32,880
in nature and there's a lot of people

1265
00:40:36,630 --> 00:40:34,960
debating what it actually was you know

1266
00:40:38,150 --> 00:40:36,640
was it on some sort of hold off

1267
00:40:38,870 --> 00:40:38,160
psychological experiment from the world

1268
00:40:41,030 --> 00:40:38,880
wars

1269
00:40:42,790 --> 00:40:41,040
was it possibly you know some sort of

1270
00:40:44,710 --> 00:40:42,800
monster who really knows

1271
00:40:46,790 --> 00:40:44,720
but either way what occurred to me as i

1272
00:40:47,750 --> 00:40:46,800
was writing about this case is how very

1273
00:40:50,870 --> 00:40:47,760
robotic

1274
00:40:52,710 --> 00:40:50,880
the witnesses described this being and

1275
00:40:54,470 --> 00:40:52,720
it hit me i was suddenly like you know

1276
00:40:55,670 --> 00:40:54,480
truthfully this is what we should be

1277
00:40:56,470 --> 00:40:55,680
looking for this is what we should be

1278
00:40:59,750 --> 00:40:56,480
seeing

1279
00:41:01,109 --> 00:40:59,760
um if indeed all you know ufo sightings

1280
00:41:03,030 --> 00:41:01,119
and ufo occupant sightings

1281
00:41:04,390 --> 00:41:03,040
are due to extraterrestrial biological

1282
00:41:06,390 --> 00:41:04,400
entities

1283
00:41:07,910 --> 00:41:06,400
and you know then it started occurring

1284
00:41:10,630 --> 00:41:07,920
to me that on the flip side

1285
00:41:12,230 --> 00:41:10,640
when most people report ufo occupants

1286
00:41:13,589 --> 00:41:12,240
they are reporting these

1287
00:41:14,950 --> 00:41:13,599
you know things that are wearing no sort

1288
00:41:16,150 --> 00:41:14,960
of protective gear no you know

1289
00:41:18,309 --> 00:41:16,160
respiratory equipment

1290
00:41:19,750 --> 00:41:18,319
i know this is a very simplistic view on

1291
00:41:21,349 --> 00:41:19,760
what could be an incredibly incredibly

1292
00:41:23,190 --> 00:41:21,359
advanced civilization

1293
00:41:24,550 --> 00:41:23,200
um but again it just kind of stood out

1294
00:41:26,069 --> 00:41:24,560
to me and then i started looking at okay

1295
00:41:28,550 --> 00:41:26,079
well what are they wearing

1296
00:41:29,670 --> 00:41:28,560
and time and time again you get these

1297
00:41:32,230 --> 00:41:29,680
encounters

1298
00:41:32,950 --> 00:41:32,240
that seem a lot more in line with fairy

1299
00:41:34,550 --> 00:41:32,960
lore

1300
00:41:36,230 --> 00:41:34,560
i mean simonton's again is a perfect

1301
00:41:39,430 --> 00:41:36,240
example you have these um

1302
00:41:42,470 --> 00:41:39,440
little men wearing black knit caps um

1303
00:41:44,870 --> 00:41:42,480
in the honeycutting counter of 1955

1304
00:41:46,630 --> 00:41:44,880
in actually loveland ohio um where the

1305
00:41:47,990 --> 00:41:46,640
frogman was cited years later

1306
00:41:49,829 --> 00:41:48,000
there were the the sighting of these

1307
00:41:51,430 --> 00:41:49,839
three um asymmetrical

1308
00:41:53,270 --> 00:41:51,440
almost gnome-like creatures and they

1309
00:41:54,870 --> 00:41:53,280
were wearing um

1310
00:41:56,309 --> 00:41:54,880
what appeared to be almost like tunics

1311
00:41:58,309 --> 00:41:56,319
or something like that so you see these

1312
00:42:00,069 --> 00:41:58,319
details over and over again

1313
00:42:02,150 --> 00:42:00,079
and then too the really intriguing thing

1314
00:42:04,390 --> 00:42:02,160
to me is that you also start seeing

1315
00:42:05,750 --> 00:42:04,400
trends like a big trend in the 60s you

1316
00:42:07,109 --> 00:42:05,760
see a lot of these

1317
00:42:09,109 --> 00:42:07,119
ufo occupants wearing what they

1318
00:42:11,670 --> 00:42:09,119
described as boiler suits

1319
00:42:13,270 --> 00:42:11,680
and so my interest here um because again

1320
00:42:15,589 --> 00:42:13,280
i do i think that there may there is a

1321
00:42:17,510 --> 00:42:15,599
huge connection to paranormal phenomena

1322
00:42:19,270 --> 00:42:17,520
on especially ufo occupants and

1323
00:42:21,430 --> 00:42:19,280
subconscious of the witness

1324
00:42:23,270 --> 00:42:21,440
um however i think that you know this

1325
00:42:25,589 --> 00:42:23,280
might even be a way to kind of nail down

1326
00:42:26,950 --> 00:42:25,599
what is something that we are

1327
00:42:29,349 --> 00:42:26,960
influencing what is something malleable

1328
00:42:31,670 --> 00:42:29,359
what may be a construction or projection

1329
00:42:33,829 --> 00:42:31,680
that's being shaped by the observer and

1330
00:42:35,349 --> 00:42:33,839
what is genuinely something else

1331
00:42:37,270 --> 00:42:35,359
so you know maybe when you see these

1332
00:42:38,870 --> 00:42:37,280
trends is that just the culture of the

1333
00:42:40,470 --> 00:42:38,880
time kind of shaping

1334
00:42:42,790 --> 00:42:40,480
these different these different

1335
00:42:44,230 --> 00:42:42,800
scenarios or is it indeed

1336
00:42:46,230 --> 00:42:44,240
possibly in the case of these boiler

1337
00:42:49,910 --> 00:42:46,240
suit entities is that just

1338
00:42:51,829 --> 00:42:49,920
the genuine entity right there

1339
00:42:53,589 --> 00:42:51,839
um and then too you know even now today

1340
00:42:56,150 --> 00:42:53,599
we the gray is definitely

1341
00:42:58,230 --> 00:42:56,160
the symbol of our time and another

1342
00:43:00,790 --> 00:42:58,240
intriguing thing is that a lot of people

1343
00:43:02,470 --> 00:43:00,800
a lot of abductees and experiencers will

1344
00:43:03,589 --> 00:43:02,480
even claim that the grays almost appear

1345
00:43:04,710 --> 00:43:03,599
to be a suit

1346
00:43:06,470 --> 00:43:04,720
i'm not that they're wearing a

1347
00:43:07,670 --> 00:43:06,480
protective suit but they are the suit or

1348
00:43:09,670 --> 00:43:07,680
they are the drone

1349
00:43:11,349 --> 00:43:09,680
so yeah this this is just one little

1350
00:43:12,950 --> 00:43:11,359
tiny aspect of the phenomenon that is

1351
00:43:16,230 --> 00:43:12,960
just incredibly intriguing

1352
00:43:19,750 --> 00:43:16,240
to me yeah and i i

1353
00:43:21,670 --> 00:43:19,760
think i remember uh in communion with

1354
00:43:24,710 --> 00:43:21,680
whitley strieber or

1355
00:43:27,750 --> 00:43:24,720
travis walton with fire in the sky uh

1356
00:43:30,150 --> 00:43:27,760
both claimed that these were suits

1357
00:43:31,750 --> 00:43:30,160
of some sort that the actual entity was

1358
00:43:34,069 --> 00:43:31,760
within it um which

1359
00:43:35,910 --> 00:43:34,079
was very fascinating uh that both would

1360
00:43:37,270 --> 00:43:35,920
claim such things um

1361
00:43:39,670 --> 00:43:37,280
yeah yeah that's that's really

1362
00:43:41,670 --> 00:43:39,680
interesting i know um

1363
00:43:44,150 --> 00:43:41,680
there are certain researchers out there

1364
00:43:45,750 --> 00:43:44,160
who have looked at the different symbols

1365
00:43:46,550 --> 00:43:45,760
that people have claimed of seeing on

1366
00:43:48,309 --> 00:43:46,560
these suits

1367
00:43:49,990 --> 00:43:48,319
and trying to find patterns with that

1368
00:43:52,309 --> 00:43:50,000
but again i think you're right there's

1369
00:43:55,750 --> 00:43:52,319
such a trickster element to all of this

1370
00:43:58,710 --> 00:43:55,760
and um ties to folklore and

1371
00:44:01,109 --> 00:43:58,720
and the fairy folk like trickster

1372
00:44:01,589 --> 00:44:01,119
element to that so yeah i love it i love

1373
00:44:03,510 --> 00:44:01,599
how

1374
00:44:05,349 --> 00:44:03,520
these phenomena just always keep us on

1375
00:44:07,750 --> 00:44:05,359
our toes and love to mess with us

1376
00:44:08,710 --> 00:44:07,760
because uh we deserve it i think we do

1377
00:44:10,470 --> 00:44:08,720
um

1378
00:44:12,309 --> 00:44:10,480
that being said i gotta ask you about

1379
00:44:13,910 --> 00:44:12,319
ivan t sanderson another one of the

1380
00:44:16,230 --> 00:44:13,920
people that you really look up to

1381
00:44:17,990 --> 00:44:16,240
and uh this really interesting

1382
00:44:21,510 --> 00:44:18,000
resurgence i think in the last

1383
00:44:24,950 --> 00:44:21,520
year or so of the ufo research community

1384
00:44:26,230 --> 00:44:24,960
looking at uh usos you know these ufos

1385
00:44:29,510 --> 00:44:26,240
that seem to either

1386
00:44:31,670 --> 00:44:29,520
come out of or go into the water i mean

1387
00:44:33,190 --> 00:44:31,680
a couple weeks ago in hawaii there was a

1388
00:44:34,790 --> 00:44:33,200
big case where

1389
00:44:36,550 --> 00:44:34,800
something went into the water and then

1390
00:44:39,510 --> 00:44:36,560
came back out and

1391
00:44:40,790 --> 00:44:39,520
we're hearing rumors that this pentagon

1392
00:44:44,230 --> 00:44:40,800
task force

1393
00:44:45,349 --> 00:44:44,240
has photos of a craft emerging from the

1394
00:44:47,510 --> 00:44:45,359
ocean i mean

1395
00:44:48,710 --> 00:44:47,520
it's crazy and it just adds another

1396
00:44:51,430 --> 00:44:48,720
layer to all of this

1397
00:44:53,670 --> 00:44:51,440
is the water um have you ever come

1398
00:44:57,270 --> 00:44:53,680
across any cases out in wisconsin

1399
00:44:59,910 --> 00:44:57,280
with lakes or bodies of water and ufos

1400
00:45:00,390 --> 00:44:59,920
yeah what do you think of all that stuff

1401
00:45:01,910 --> 00:45:00,400
well

1402
00:45:03,990 --> 00:45:01,920
there is a definite connection i would

1403
00:45:05,670 --> 00:45:04,000
say um especially with ufos and water

1404
00:45:07,750 --> 00:45:05,680
and again too this even traverses the

1405
00:45:10,150 --> 00:45:07,760
boundary for all paranormal phenomena

1406
00:45:11,829 --> 00:45:10,160
um but yeah wisconsin i know that i

1407
00:45:13,990 --> 00:45:11,839
believe it's lake superior suppose

1408
00:45:14,950 --> 00:45:14,000
there's there's kind of an almost urban

1409
00:45:17,190 --> 00:45:14,960
legend that there's a

1410
00:45:18,390 --> 00:45:17,200
base in lake superior um and there have

1411
00:45:19,910 --> 00:45:18,400
been sightings you know

1412
00:45:22,069 --> 00:45:19,920
in any of the great lakes of things

1413
00:45:24,710 --> 00:45:22,079
going into it coming out of the water

1414
00:45:26,230 --> 00:45:24,720
um and yeah no i even see sanderson

1415
00:45:29,510 --> 00:45:26,240
because he really did nail that down

1416
00:45:29,829 --> 00:45:29,520
in invisible residence and he is he's

1417
00:45:32,150 --> 00:45:29,839
just

1418
00:45:33,109 --> 00:45:32,160
intriguing because of course he was a

1419
00:45:34,150 --> 00:45:33,119
naturalist

1420
00:45:35,670 --> 00:45:34,160
first and foremost and you can

1421
00:45:36,870 --> 00:45:35,680
definitely see that trailing through all

1422
00:45:39,190 --> 00:45:36,880
of his writings

1423
00:45:40,950 --> 00:45:39,200
and so even if you know i don't agree

1424
00:45:42,710 --> 00:45:40,960
with a lot of the conclusions that he

1425
00:45:44,230 --> 00:45:42,720
necessarily came to but i love

1426
00:45:46,069 --> 00:45:44,240
the logic by which he arrived at them

1427
00:45:48,390 --> 00:45:46,079
and his research was definitely

1428
00:45:49,670 --> 00:45:48,400
um groundbreaking but now an invisible

1429
00:45:50,710 --> 00:45:49,680
residence he really propounded the

1430
00:45:52,630 --> 00:45:50,720
concept that

1431
00:45:54,630 --> 00:45:52,640
you know it's true um the bodies of

1432
00:45:57,270 --> 00:45:54,640
water on our planet i mean the oceans

1433
00:45:58,309 --> 00:45:57,280
are just unfathomably unexplored even

1434
00:46:00,309 --> 00:45:58,319
today

1435
00:46:02,230 --> 00:46:00,319
and so he propounded this concept that

1436
00:46:03,910 --> 00:46:02,240
you know there could have been

1437
00:46:05,910 --> 00:46:03,920
kind of concurrent evolution and that

1438
00:46:07,349 --> 00:46:05,920
there may be some sort of highly

1439
00:46:09,349 --> 00:46:07,359
advanced civilization

1440
00:46:11,430 --> 00:46:09,359
um literally in our oceans kind of right

1441
00:46:13,829 --> 00:46:11,440
under our noses so to speak

1442
00:46:14,470 --> 00:46:13,839
and it is true there's you know a huge

1443
00:46:17,190 --> 00:46:14,480
connection

1444
00:46:19,510 --> 00:46:17,200
to water in sightings of ufos um and

1445
00:46:21,190 --> 00:46:19,520
again usos as they're known then

1446
00:46:23,030 --> 00:46:21,200
and i think the intriguing thing to me

1447
00:46:25,910 --> 00:46:23,040
is you know almost when does it stop

1448
00:46:28,230 --> 00:46:25,920
being a ufo i think it was sanderson

1449
00:46:29,670 --> 00:46:28,240
um who when he asked when someone asked

1450
00:46:30,470 --> 00:46:29,680
if he believed in ufos he said i didn't

1451
00:46:33,430 --> 00:46:30,480
know they did

1452
00:46:34,870 --> 00:46:33,440
fly you know and that is the intriguing

1453
00:46:37,030 --> 00:46:34,880
concept is it's like we do have these

1454
00:46:38,550 --> 00:46:37,040
things that are spotted in the waters

1455
00:46:40,309 --> 00:46:38,560
we still label them as ufos and of

1456
00:46:43,430 --> 00:46:40,319
course some of them do take off then

1457
00:46:45,829 --> 00:46:43,440
so i guess that makes sense but

1458
00:46:47,109 --> 00:46:45,839
um yeah no his other research too into

1459
00:46:49,990 --> 00:46:47,119
kind of like biological

1460
00:46:51,349 --> 00:46:50,000
ufos is a major interest of mine as well

1461
00:46:53,270 --> 00:46:51,359
and that he really discussed in

1462
00:46:55,670 --> 00:46:53,280
uninvited visitors

1463
00:46:56,309 --> 00:46:55,680
right i i would love if you wouldn't

1464
00:46:59,349 --> 00:46:56,319
mind

1465
00:47:01,349 --> 00:46:59,359
kind of sharing that idea of biological

1466
00:47:03,270 --> 00:47:01,359
ufos we've heard of these things kind of

1467
00:47:05,670 --> 00:47:03,280
being living organisms

1468
00:47:08,069 --> 00:47:05,680
in our skies um so yeah if you don't

1469
00:47:11,030 --> 00:47:08,079
mind expanding on that a little bit

1470
00:47:12,230 --> 00:47:11,040
yeah sure thing um so pretty much and

1471
00:47:14,309 --> 00:47:12,240
this actually this interest in

1472
00:47:15,589 --> 00:47:14,319
particular was kicked off um by personal

1473
00:47:17,510 --> 00:47:15,599
experience i had

1474
00:47:18,950 --> 00:47:17,520
it was many years ago my mom and sisters

1475
00:47:19,910 --> 00:47:18,960
and i were watching a lunar eclipse

1476
00:47:22,069 --> 00:47:19,920
actually

1477
00:47:23,510 --> 00:47:22,079
and off on the horizon we saw these they

1478
00:47:24,470 --> 00:47:23,520
can only be described as almost looking

1479
00:47:27,030 --> 00:47:24,480
like these

1480
00:47:28,390 --> 00:47:27,040
um kind of amoeba type objects i know it

1481
00:47:31,589 --> 00:47:28,400
sounds very strange

1482
00:47:33,270 --> 00:47:31,599
um but it was just and they were

1483
00:47:34,950 --> 00:47:33,280
you know really like moving quickly kind

1484
00:47:36,829 --> 00:47:34,960
of along the horizon line

1485
00:47:38,950 --> 00:47:36,839
um these very they almost looked

1486
00:47:41,030 --> 00:47:38,960
bioluminescent um

1487
00:47:42,470 --> 00:47:41,040
yeah just amoeba type objects and we

1488
00:47:43,510 --> 00:47:42,480
washed them for i want to say maybe 20

1489
00:47:45,589 --> 00:47:43,520
minutes half an hour

1490
00:47:47,190 --> 00:47:45,599
on while the eclipse was going on and so

1491
00:47:48,710 --> 00:47:47,200
that kicked off a major

1492
00:47:49,910 --> 00:47:48,720
interest um i started looking up you

1493
00:47:51,270 --> 00:47:49,920
know what could this possibly be

1494
00:47:52,870 --> 00:47:51,280
thinking maybe it was even atmospheric

1495
00:47:54,630 --> 00:47:52,880
phenomena or something like that

1496
00:47:56,150 --> 00:47:54,640
and as it turns out there are many

1497
00:47:58,069 --> 00:47:56,160
people who have described things that

1498
00:48:01,510 --> 00:47:58,079
appear to almost be

1499
00:48:02,710 --> 00:48:01,520
organic objects up in our skies and ivan

1500
00:48:04,710 --> 00:48:02,720
sanderson

1501
00:48:06,710 --> 00:48:04,720
you know the thing is and you can always

1502
00:48:09,030 --> 00:48:06,720
tell that he really does kind of trace

1503
00:48:10,230 --> 00:48:09,040
from the you know the background of

1504
00:48:13,430 --> 00:48:10,240
being a biologist

1505
00:48:15,270 --> 00:48:13,440
because man he really you know in um

1506
00:48:16,870 --> 00:48:15,280
uninvited visitors he kind of does take

1507
00:48:18,150 --> 00:48:16,880
it to the absolute limit

1508
00:48:19,670 --> 00:48:18,160
and the terrible thing is you can follow

1509
00:48:21,510 --> 00:48:19,680
his logic all the way to him describing

1510
00:48:22,150 --> 00:48:21,520
how there may be amoeba ships from other

1511
00:48:23,990 --> 00:48:22,160
planets

1512
00:48:25,910 --> 00:48:24,000
carrying other biological life forms now

1513
00:48:27,910 --> 00:48:25,920
i'm not going to go that far

1514
00:48:29,430 --> 00:48:27,920
but i do believe that there's enough

1515
00:48:31,750 --> 00:48:29,440
room again there's just

1516
00:48:33,430 --> 00:48:31,760
there's so much room even on our planet

1517
00:48:35,829 --> 00:48:33,440
for things to exist that we

1518
00:48:36,950 --> 00:48:35,839
currently don't know about and so um you

1519
00:48:38,950 --> 00:48:36,960
know yeah i think that there's the

1520
00:48:41,030 --> 00:48:38,960
potential that there may be these

1521
00:48:41,990 --> 00:48:41,040
organisms very much unlike life as we

1522
00:48:45,430 --> 00:48:42,000
understand it

1523
00:48:48,230 --> 00:48:45,440
living in our upper atmospheres it's

1524
00:48:50,549 --> 00:48:48,240
so fascinating and i know it's again the

1525
00:48:52,710 --> 00:48:50,559
oceans hold so many mysteries

1526
00:48:54,230 --> 00:48:52,720
that uh i think we should be exploring

1527
00:48:56,950 --> 00:48:54,240
more than we are

1528
00:48:58,790 --> 00:48:56,960
the outer reaches of space for sure um

1529
00:49:01,430 --> 00:48:58,800
so it's so good to see

1530
00:49:01,990 --> 00:49:01,440
you know nasa which we usually think of

1531
00:49:04,470 --> 00:49:02,000
as

1532
00:49:05,190 --> 00:49:04,480
going out into space doing so much more

1533
00:49:07,670 --> 00:49:05,200
work

1534
00:49:08,230 --> 00:49:07,680
in looking at our oceans and and the

1535
00:49:10,390 --> 00:49:08,240
climate

1536
00:49:11,270 --> 00:49:10,400
and all these issues we have on our

1537
00:49:15,109 --> 00:49:11,280
planet

1538
00:49:17,829 --> 00:49:15,119
that we only have one of um until

1539
00:49:18,470 --> 00:49:17,839
until we start colonizing mars or the

1540
00:49:20,870 --> 00:49:18,480
moon

1541
00:49:22,150 --> 00:49:20,880
or what have you so no i think you're

1542
00:49:24,470 --> 00:49:22,160
right i think there's

1543
00:49:25,670 --> 00:49:24,480
we've only scratched the surface of uh

1544
00:49:28,710 --> 00:49:25,680
these phenomena

1545
00:49:31,510 --> 00:49:28,720
um here on the ground um and

1546
00:49:32,630 --> 00:49:31,520
up in space but below i think is where

1547
00:49:35,589 --> 00:49:32,640
it's really yeah

1548
00:49:37,109 --> 00:49:35,599
so i i hope you're going down that path

1549
00:49:37,510 --> 00:49:37,119
i'm almost scared to see what they come

1550
00:49:40,790 --> 00:49:37,520
up with

1551
00:49:42,390 --> 00:49:40,800
but i've read too much hp lovecraft man

1552
00:49:44,309 --> 00:49:42,400
you know

1553
00:49:46,230 --> 00:49:44,319
that's totally fair well i just read

1554
00:49:47,670 --> 00:49:46,240
something yesterday where a scientist

1555
00:49:50,950 --> 00:49:47,680
was claiming that

1556
00:49:53,829 --> 00:49:50,960
oh my gosh where was it europa or

1557
00:49:54,950 --> 00:49:53,839
oh god it's escaping me right now where

1558
00:49:58,390 --> 00:49:54,960
they said they were

1559
00:49:59,990 --> 00:49:58,400
octopus like aliens on the moon or the

1560
00:50:03,270 --> 00:50:00,000
planet and that just freaked me out

1561
00:50:03,750 --> 00:50:03,280
i hate tentacled things so if that's

1562
00:50:07,109 --> 00:50:03,760
what

1563
00:50:10,069 --> 00:50:07,119
aliens end up being or you know these

1564
00:50:12,309 --> 00:50:10,079
heptapods from arrival i'm done i'm done

1565
00:50:14,790 --> 00:50:12,319
for i don't want anything to do with it

1566
00:50:15,910 --> 00:50:14,800
for some reason i don't have very many

1567
00:50:17,910 --> 00:50:15,920
recurrent dreams

1568
00:50:19,030 --> 00:50:17,920
but some of them always involve giant

1569
00:50:22,549 --> 00:50:19,040
squids

1570
00:50:24,710 --> 00:50:22,559
and i am like like simultaneously

1571
00:50:25,990 --> 00:50:24,720
i love i actually love like the concept

1572
00:50:27,430 --> 00:50:26,000
of octopus they're very interesting

1573
00:50:29,109 --> 00:50:27,440
creatures they have high you know

1574
00:50:31,109 --> 00:50:29,119
high-level intelligence

1575
00:50:32,790 --> 00:50:31,119
but man i oh my gosh they also just

1576
00:50:35,990 --> 00:50:32,800
freak me out

1577
00:50:40,549 --> 00:50:36,000
yeah i i blame lovecraft he started

1578
00:50:43,430 --> 00:50:40,559
um well i i think kind of

1579
00:50:44,630 --> 00:50:43,440
um and i know my internet's been a

1580
00:50:47,349 --> 00:50:44,640
little wonky i will

1581
00:50:48,230 --> 00:50:47,359
edit this all to be smooth i apologize

1582
00:50:50,069 --> 00:50:48,240
um

1583
00:50:51,510 --> 00:50:50,079
sorry let's see i just have a few more

1584
00:50:54,069 --> 00:50:51,520
questions if that's cool

1585
00:50:54,870 --> 00:50:54,079
yeah totally this is awesome by the way

1586
00:50:56,790 --> 00:50:54,880
so yeah

1587
00:50:58,230 --> 00:50:56,800
oh good i'm glad you're enjoying it

1588
00:51:00,150 --> 00:50:58,240
again i

1589
00:51:01,829 --> 00:51:00,160
i don't like it to just be like the same

1590
00:51:05,670 --> 00:51:01,839
song and dance over and over

1591
00:51:09,030 --> 00:51:05,680
but um let's see okay here we go

1592
00:51:10,630 --> 00:51:09,040
terminology is and language plays such a

1593
00:51:12,710 --> 00:51:10,640
big role in all of this

1594
00:51:13,829 --> 00:51:12,720
how a certain witness interprets an

1595
00:51:16,230 --> 00:51:13,839
experience

1596
00:51:18,150 --> 00:51:16,240
and how they convey it to other people

1597
00:51:21,109 --> 00:51:18,160
through the language that they know

1598
00:51:22,870 --> 00:51:21,119
and have been conditioned to use um

1599
00:51:26,870 --> 00:51:22,880
that's always fascinated me

1600
00:51:29,910 --> 00:51:26,880
as well and one of the big terms is ufo

1601
00:51:32,950 --> 00:51:29,920
and within the last couple years

1602
00:51:35,750 --> 00:51:32,960
it's completely been changed to uap

1603
00:51:35,990 --> 00:51:35,760
so as a ufo researcher and someone who's

1604
00:51:39,349 --> 00:51:36,000
been

1605
00:51:40,870 --> 00:51:39,359
in this for a while do you care about

1606
00:51:43,270 --> 00:51:40,880
the difference between these two

1607
00:51:45,030 --> 00:51:43,280
are they different to you personally and

1608
00:51:47,829 --> 00:51:45,040
what should people be using

1609
00:51:48,390 --> 00:51:47,839
in your opinion you know for the most

1610
00:51:50,790 --> 00:51:48,400
part

1611
00:51:52,390 --> 00:51:50,800
um i think that when people say either

1612
00:51:54,230 --> 00:51:52,400
one they're referring to the same

1613
00:51:57,270 --> 00:51:54,240
concept if that makes sense

1614
00:51:58,950 --> 00:51:57,280
now technically i know that uap it does

1615
00:52:00,470 --> 00:51:58,960
encapsulate a lot more

1616
00:52:02,549 --> 00:52:00,480
um because again in sanderson i think

1617
00:52:03,750 --> 00:52:02,559
even ballet have both kind of been on

1618
00:52:05,750 --> 00:52:03,760
the bandwagon

1619
00:52:07,190 --> 00:52:05,760
at least in some of their books that a

1620
00:52:08,150 --> 00:52:07,200
lot of these things they don't seem to

1621
00:52:09,910 --> 00:52:08,160
fly

1622
00:52:11,109 --> 00:52:09,920
and you know it's kind of even up in the

1623
00:52:12,549 --> 00:52:11,119
air as to whether or not they are

1624
00:52:14,950 --> 00:52:12,559
technically objects

1625
00:52:15,990 --> 00:52:14,960
or you know just simply again like a

1626
00:52:18,870 --> 00:52:16,000
phenomenon

1627
00:52:20,870 --> 00:52:18,880
so you know technically um on that basis

1628
00:52:23,270 --> 00:52:20,880
i do prefer the term uap

1629
00:52:24,870 --> 00:52:23,280
um i will say that i pretty much almost

1630
00:52:25,589 --> 00:52:24,880
exclusively when i'm talking or doing

1631
00:52:27,510 --> 00:52:25,599
videos

1632
00:52:29,589 --> 00:52:27,520
um use the term ufo simply because

1633
00:52:31,910 --> 00:52:29,599
that's the more general term

1634
00:52:32,790 --> 00:52:31,920
um honestly though i've listened to some

1635
00:52:34,470 --> 00:52:32,800
of kiehl's

1636
00:52:36,630 --> 00:52:34,480
interviews and he legitimately called

1637
00:52:38,549 --> 00:52:36,640
them ufos which i feel like is pretty

1638
00:52:39,589 --> 00:52:38,559
fantastic too because then you're using

1639
00:52:40,950 --> 00:52:39,599
you know the general term but you're

1640
00:52:41,589 --> 00:52:40,960
still just kind of calling it its own

1641
00:52:43,910 --> 00:52:41,599
thing

1642
00:52:46,950 --> 00:52:43,920
so i i've almost considered doing that

1643
00:52:49,109 --> 00:52:46,960
um but i haven't commit to it so far

1644
00:52:50,230 --> 00:52:49,119
yeah yeah i believe yeah the proper term

1645
00:52:52,549 --> 00:52:50,240
is ufo

1646
00:52:53,829 --> 00:52:52,559
and um and we have to remember too like

1647
00:52:57,030 --> 00:52:53,839
ufo

1648
00:52:59,589 --> 00:52:57,040
was coined by the air force to kind of

1649
00:53:00,230 --> 00:52:59,599
downplay the high strangeness of these

1650
00:53:02,069 --> 00:53:00,240
things

1651
00:53:03,990 --> 00:53:02,079
people were reporting it's just an

1652
00:53:04,950 --> 00:53:04,000
object it's probably a balloon it's

1653
00:53:07,510 --> 00:53:04,960
probably venus

1654
00:53:09,109 --> 00:53:07,520
like it's just unidentified it's fine

1655
00:53:12,710 --> 00:53:09,119
but then you start talking

1656
00:53:14,870 --> 00:53:12,720
biological ufos or um uh

1657
00:53:15,750 --> 00:53:14,880
orbs which is another big thing you've

1658
00:53:18,950 --> 00:53:15,760
looked into

1659
00:53:19,589 --> 00:53:18,960
across the spectrum of is it a ufo is it

1660
00:53:22,630 --> 00:53:19,599
a um

1661
00:53:25,270 --> 00:53:22,640
paranormal experience and everything um

1662
00:53:27,190 --> 00:53:25,280
so yeah terminology can completely

1663
00:53:29,990 --> 00:53:27,200
change our perception of all of this

1664
00:53:31,670 --> 00:53:30,000
so i love uap personally i think you're

1665
00:53:35,030 --> 00:53:31,680
right i think it kind of broadens

1666
00:53:36,309 --> 00:53:35,040
everything and um i hope it eventually

1667
00:53:38,870 --> 00:53:36,319
catches on but

1668
00:53:41,030 --> 00:53:38,880
that nostalgic feel of ufo will never go

1669
00:53:43,190 --> 00:53:41,040
away no matter how hard we try

1670
00:53:44,950 --> 00:53:43,200
in my personal life referring to

1671
00:53:47,750 --> 00:53:44,960
anything seen up there as a flying son

1672
00:53:48,549 --> 00:53:47,760
sorry as a flying saucer too i mean oh

1673
00:53:50,150 --> 00:53:48,559
god

1674
00:53:51,910 --> 00:53:50,160
how about just mid-century vibes you

1675
00:53:54,630 --> 00:53:51,920
know

1676
00:53:56,390 --> 00:53:54,640
i love it i love it um well i would love

1677
00:53:59,910 --> 00:53:56,400
your thoughts on the current

1678
00:54:03,829 --> 00:53:59,920
state of i guess ufology we have the

1679
00:54:06,150 --> 00:54:03,839
u.s government creating a task force

1680
00:54:09,270 --> 00:54:06,160
to look into these things and they've

1681
00:54:09,990 --> 00:54:09,280
got something like 140 days at this

1682
00:54:13,670 --> 00:54:10,000
point to kind of

1683
00:54:15,589 --> 00:54:13,680
provide um their findings to the public

1684
00:54:16,950 --> 00:54:15,599
uh what do you make of all this i mean

1685
00:54:18,230 --> 00:54:16,960
this is a whole other aspect of the

1686
00:54:21,510 --> 00:54:18,240
whole ufo

1687
00:54:22,470 --> 00:54:21,520
topic other than valet and and keel like

1688
00:54:25,349 --> 00:54:22,480
we're talking

1689
00:54:25,670 --> 00:54:25,359
straight up government involvement in

1690
00:54:28,549 --> 00:54:25,680
this

1691
00:54:29,430 --> 00:54:28,559
issue so do you think anything's going

1692
00:54:31,270 --> 00:54:29,440
to come of this

1693
00:54:33,270 --> 00:54:31,280
is it good is it bad what are your

1694
00:54:36,390 --> 00:54:33,280
personal thoughts

1695
00:54:39,190 --> 00:54:36,400
i hate to be a pessimist um but

1696
00:54:40,309 --> 00:54:39,200
truthfully i i don't anticipate much um

1697
00:54:41,990 --> 00:54:40,319
coming from it

1698
00:54:43,589 --> 00:54:42,000
um i will say whatever i see because you

1699
00:54:44,710 --> 00:54:43,599
know honestly 2020 has been a banner

1700
00:54:47,270 --> 00:54:44,720
year for many reasons

1701
00:54:48,950 --> 00:54:47,280
and it's also been a banner year for

1702
00:54:50,630 --> 00:54:48,960
ufos hitting the news

1703
00:54:52,230 --> 00:54:50,640
um kind of slid in between everything

1704
00:54:54,069 --> 00:54:52,240
else that's been going on

1705
00:54:55,589 --> 00:54:54,079
and so you know honestly when this came

1706
00:54:56,069 --> 00:54:55,599
out about the new uip task force i

1707
00:54:57,750 --> 00:54:56,079
wasn't

1708
00:54:59,510 --> 00:54:57,760
even really that surprised it almost

1709
00:55:02,309 --> 00:54:59,520
seemed kind of par for the course

1710
00:55:03,349 --> 00:55:02,319
um of course i the thing that i can see

1711
00:55:05,829 --> 00:55:03,359
coming from it

1712
00:55:07,750 --> 00:55:05,839
is the fact that it may possibly have

1713
00:55:08,549 --> 00:55:07,760
the potential to normalize it for people

1714
00:55:11,910 --> 00:55:08,559
and make it more

1715
00:55:12,630 --> 00:55:11,920
okay to submit sightings and things like

1716
00:55:15,829 --> 00:55:12,640
that

1717
00:55:19,030 --> 00:55:15,839
on the flip side

1718
00:55:20,630 --> 00:55:19,040
depending on what conclusions are drawn

1719
00:55:22,710 --> 00:55:20,640
i mean it could have exactly the

1720
00:55:24,470 --> 00:55:22,720
opposite effect so

1721
00:55:26,069 --> 00:55:24,480
i will say any new information is always

1722
00:55:27,750 --> 00:55:26,079
you know it's good information so i'm

1723
00:55:30,069 --> 00:55:27,760
glad to you know if there are

1724
00:55:31,750 --> 00:55:30,079
um any legitimate reports that are given

1725
00:55:34,470 --> 00:55:31,760
to the public that can be looked at

1726
00:55:36,630 --> 00:55:34,480
you know i'm excited for that um but as

1727
00:55:37,910 --> 00:55:36,640
far as to i believe that a big part of

1728
00:55:40,950 --> 00:55:37,920
the ufo phenomenon

1729
00:55:43,589 --> 00:55:40,960
is it's it's just so tied to

1730
00:55:44,870 --> 00:55:43,599
human consciousness um is kind of where

1731
00:55:46,069 --> 00:55:44,880
i'm at currently

1732
00:55:48,390 --> 00:55:46,079
and i don't think that any of those

1733
00:55:49,829 --> 00:55:48,400
answers will really even um become close

1734
00:55:51,990 --> 00:55:49,839
to being figured out

1735
00:55:53,349 --> 00:55:52,000
through any of these programs yep maybe

1736
00:55:55,750 --> 00:55:53,359
maybe i'll be wrong but

1737
00:55:57,349 --> 00:55:55,760
that's kind of where i said i mean it's

1738
00:55:59,270 --> 00:55:57,359
interesting we look at what the

1739
00:56:01,670 --> 00:55:59,280
government has looked at in the past

1740
00:56:02,710 --> 00:56:01,680
through declassified files i mean the

1741
00:56:05,750 --> 00:56:02,720
everything from

1742
00:56:09,270 --> 00:56:05,760
remote viewing to nieces

1743
00:56:09,910 --> 00:56:09,280
to uh yeah and i mean it's crazy and

1744
00:56:13,109 --> 00:56:09,920
look hey

1745
00:56:15,430 --> 00:56:13,119
try everything is my opinion so

1746
00:56:17,109 --> 00:56:15,440
i do tend to agree with you i think this

1747
00:56:20,230 --> 00:56:17,119
is a very

1748
00:56:23,430 --> 00:56:20,240
uh militarized

1749
00:56:26,870 --> 00:56:23,440
perception of this entire thing um

1750
00:56:28,630 --> 00:56:26,880
and just a way for certain parts of the

1751
00:56:30,150 --> 00:56:28,640
government to get more funding let's be

1752
00:56:31,349 --> 00:56:30,160
completely honest to look at what could

1753
00:56:33,990 --> 00:56:31,359
potentially be

1754
00:56:34,870 --> 00:56:34,000
threats to our nation and they will give

1755
00:56:37,990 --> 00:56:34,880
any money

1756
00:56:42,789 --> 00:56:38,000
to the us government to um

1757
00:56:45,589 --> 00:56:42,799
defend and to fight against threats so

1758
00:56:47,109 --> 00:56:45,599
i don't know i i i'm kind of pessimistic

1759
00:56:50,230 --> 00:56:47,119
as well i don't think we're gonna get

1760
00:56:52,470 --> 00:56:50,240
from this thing um if we get anything

1761
00:56:53,589 --> 00:56:52,480
i'll be surprised and i'll eat crow but

1762
00:56:55,109 --> 00:56:53,599
um yeah

1763
00:56:59,030 --> 00:56:55,119
i tend to agree with you i think it's a

1764
00:57:01,990 --> 00:56:59,040
way to kind of control the narrative

1765
00:57:04,069 --> 00:57:02,000
to the public of what yokozar and again

1766
00:57:06,870 --> 00:57:04,079
stripping it of the high strangeness

1767
00:57:07,990 --> 00:57:06,880
that it's always had so um i'm not

1768
00:57:10,549 --> 00:57:08,000
holding my breath

1769
00:57:11,430 --> 00:57:10,559
i think civilian researchers like

1770
00:57:13,829 --> 00:57:11,440
yourself

1771
00:57:14,710 --> 00:57:13,839
and others out there doing their own

1772
00:57:16,950 --> 00:57:14,720
work is

1773
00:57:18,150 --> 00:57:16,960
where it's truly at um and having

1774
00:57:20,870 --> 00:57:18,160
conversations

1775
00:57:22,710 --> 00:57:20,880
like this so um yeah just keep up the

1776
00:57:24,630 --> 00:57:22,720
good work keep fighting your own fight

1777
00:57:25,990 --> 00:57:24,640
like the rest of us um we'll let the

1778
00:57:28,950 --> 00:57:26,000
government do their own thing

1779
00:57:29,670 --> 00:57:28,960
um yeah but you know um speaking of your

1780
00:57:31,430 --> 00:57:29,680
own things

1781
00:57:32,789 --> 00:57:31,440
i gotta ask about the youtube channel

1782
00:57:35,270 --> 00:57:32,799
before we go okay

1783
00:57:36,870 --> 00:57:35,280
tinfoil hat tell us all about it and

1784
00:57:38,950 --> 00:57:36,880
also um

1785
00:57:40,069 --> 00:57:38,960
just that that image tin foil hat it

1786
00:57:44,549 --> 00:57:40,079
conjures so much

1787
00:57:48,069 --> 00:57:44,559
about uh conspiracy theory and

1788
00:57:48,470 --> 00:57:48,079
2020 is chock full of it and i don't

1789
00:57:51,750 --> 00:57:48,480
know

1790
00:57:53,829 --> 00:57:51,760
what's happened in the past god four or

1791
00:57:54,470 --> 00:57:53,839
five years when it comes to conspiracy

1792
00:57:57,270 --> 00:57:54,480
theory

1793
00:57:59,589 --> 00:57:57,280
but it's gone down a dark dark path that

1794
00:58:01,589 --> 00:57:59,599
i don't think a lot of people really saw

1795
00:58:02,950 --> 00:58:01,599
happening and um i'd love to get your

1796
00:58:04,309 --> 00:58:02,960
thoughts on that like

1797
00:58:06,390 --> 00:58:04,319
where do you think the current state of

1798
00:58:09,670 --> 00:58:06,400
conspiracy theory is

1799
00:58:12,069 --> 00:58:09,680
um with everything going on in the world

1800
00:58:14,390 --> 00:58:12,079
and uh how does it connect to what we do

1801
00:58:17,190 --> 00:58:14,400
in the ufo field

1802
00:58:17,990 --> 00:58:17,200
boy that yeah it is true i almost feel

1803
00:58:19,670 --> 00:58:18,000
like

1804
00:58:21,589 --> 00:58:19,680
it's really odd and i'll say too right

1805
00:58:22,630 --> 00:58:21,599
away um yeah my youtube channel it's

1806
00:58:24,309 --> 00:58:22,640
kind of ironic

1807
00:58:25,750 --> 00:58:24,319
um but it didn't even occur to me how

1808
00:58:26,950 --> 00:58:25,760
conspiracy issues sound when i came up

1809
00:58:29,349 --> 00:58:26,960
his name and actually i didn't

1810
00:58:30,230 --> 00:58:29,359
come up with the name it was my mom i

1811
00:58:32,069 --> 00:58:30,240
was literally i

1812
00:58:33,670 --> 00:58:32,079
just started the channel and i was

1813
00:58:34,870 --> 00:58:33,680
talking to her and i was i couldn't cope

1814
00:58:35,510 --> 00:58:34,880
with the name i'm terrible at naming

1815
00:58:37,910 --> 00:58:35,520
things

1816
00:58:38,950 --> 00:58:37,920
and she was like well what like so what

1817
00:58:40,710 --> 00:58:38,960
what do you want to call it you know

1818
00:58:41,670 --> 00:58:40,720
what's your what's your message you know

1819
00:58:42,309 --> 00:58:41,680
what are you trying to present i was

1820
00:58:43,750 --> 00:58:42,319
like

1821
00:58:46,870 --> 00:58:43,760
well you know i i just don't want to

1822
00:58:48,630 --> 00:58:46,880
come across as just another tinfoil hat

1823
00:58:49,750 --> 00:58:48,640
and she was like that's it and i was

1824
00:58:50,950 --> 00:58:49,760
like what are you talking about she's

1825
00:58:52,230 --> 00:58:50,960
like just another tinfoil hat that's

1826
00:58:53,750 --> 00:58:52,240
perfect i was like you know what it's

1827
00:58:56,230 --> 00:58:53,760
catchy it kind of has that

1828
00:58:57,910 --> 00:58:56,240
again almost um kind of nostalgic sort

1829
00:59:00,230 --> 00:58:57,920
of vibe that i really like

1830
00:59:01,990 --> 00:59:00,240
and so i went with it and the funny

1831
00:59:03,190 --> 00:59:02,000
thing is is that genuinely too i've

1832
00:59:04,870 --> 00:59:03,200
never been

1833
00:59:06,309 --> 00:59:04,880
much into conspiracies they've always

1834
00:59:07,910 --> 00:59:06,319
kind of been like a tangible part of my

1835
00:59:09,589 --> 00:59:07,920
research because of course if you're in

1836
00:59:10,789 --> 00:59:09,599
the ufo field or even in the paranormal

1837
00:59:12,069 --> 00:59:10,799
field at large

1838
00:59:13,109 --> 00:59:12,079
you know you can't throw a brick without

1839
00:59:14,230 --> 00:59:13,119
hitting a conspiracy theory

1840
00:59:17,270 --> 00:59:14,240
unfortunately

1841
00:59:19,030 --> 00:59:17,280
and i do agree i think that

1842
00:59:20,309 --> 00:59:19,040
you know just i think a lot of it does

1843
00:59:21,589 --> 00:59:20,319
have to do unfortunately with

1844
00:59:22,950 --> 00:59:21,599
the internet and the ease of information

1845
00:59:24,230 --> 00:59:22,960
which is fantastic but it's also a

1846
00:59:26,549 --> 00:59:24,240
double-edged sword

1847
00:59:27,670 --> 00:59:26,559
and so i think that things just they

1848
00:59:30,710 --> 00:59:27,680
really have like you said

1849
00:59:33,109 --> 00:59:30,720
exploded recently um

1850
00:59:34,390 --> 00:59:33,119
you know just things gain speed and then

1851
00:59:36,630 --> 00:59:34,400
it's like unstoppable and

1852
00:59:37,910 --> 00:59:36,640
all of a sudden you have an alternate

1853
00:59:41,349 --> 00:59:37,920
you know

1854
00:59:44,309 --> 00:59:41,359
i don't know just a completely different

1855
00:59:46,069 --> 00:59:44,319
way of handling all this stuff it's just

1856
00:59:47,430 --> 00:59:46,079
it's absolutely all over the place this

1857
00:59:49,030 --> 00:59:47,440
just kind of sprawling

1858
00:59:51,750 --> 00:59:49,040
sprawling thing and of course too you

1859
00:59:53,589 --> 00:59:51,760
know there's just so much division

1860
00:59:55,589 --> 00:59:53,599
um so many different places and it's

1861
00:59:57,030 --> 00:59:55,599
it's such a bummer for me personally

1862
00:59:58,870 --> 00:59:57,040
because i've always kind of

1863
01:00:00,069 --> 00:59:58,880
um in a weird way viewed the paranormal

1864
01:00:02,549 --> 01:00:00,079
as kind of a unifying force

1865
01:00:03,589 --> 01:00:02,559
like no matter where you are in time or

1866
01:00:04,950 --> 01:00:03,599
space

1867
01:00:06,870 --> 01:00:04,960
you know people have always been

1868
01:00:08,069 --> 01:00:06,880
experiencing the unknown and so for me

1869
01:00:09,349 --> 01:00:08,079
it's you know it is a very kind of

1870
01:00:12,470 --> 01:00:09,359
unifying concept

1871
01:00:12,870 --> 01:00:12,480
um and yeah you just it's weird because

1872
01:00:16,230 --> 01:00:12,880
right

1873
01:00:16,549 --> 01:00:16,240
that man people really really just go at

1874
01:00:22,789 --> 01:00:16,559
it

1875
01:00:25,270 --> 01:00:22,799
day

1876
01:00:26,470 --> 01:00:25,280
with you know specifically what's going

1877
01:00:28,549 --> 01:00:26,480
on here

1878
01:00:31,190 --> 01:00:28,559
in america but then the whole concept

1879
01:00:33,190 --> 01:00:31,200
overall of conspiracy theory and

1880
01:00:34,950 --> 01:00:33,200
and kind of the world of social media

1881
01:00:38,630 --> 01:00:34,960
and how quick things

1882
01:00:41,589 --> 01:00:38,640
uh grow and uh it's very parasitic

1883
01:00:43,990 --> 01:00:41,599
in a way and um i think you're right i

1884
01:00:46,069 --> 01:00:44,000
think it's done more to divide us

1885
01:00:48,630 --> 01:00:46,079
than unify us which i agree with you i

1886
01:00:50,549 --> 01:00:48,640
think these topics are what we all can

1887
01:00:53,510 --> 01:00:50,559
kind of

1888
01:00:54,390 --> 01:00:53,520
get together on you know and i mean i

1889
01:00:57,510 --> 01:00:54,400
will have

1890
01:00:58,950 --> 01:00:57,520
little scuffles on whatever facebook or

1891
01:00:59,910 --> 01:00:58,960
twitter with someone who doesn't have

1892
01:01:02,549 --> 01:00:59,920
the same

1893
01:01:04,069 --> 01:01:02,559
political views as i have or whatnot but

1894
01:01:07,349 --> 01:01:04,079
we can always come back to

1895
01:01:10,069 --> 01:01:07,359
uaps or the paranormal and you're right

1896
01:01:10,549 --> 01:01:10,079
that is what unifies us so i think again

1897
01:01:13,910 --> 01:01:10,559
these

1898
01:01:17,430 --> 01:01:13,920
things uh make us more human

1899
01:01:19,349 --> 01:01:17,440
than i think anything truly can so um

1900
01:01:20,870 --> 01:01:19,359
yeah it's good to it's good to know

1901
01:01:22,789 --> 01:01:20,880
we're in a good place when it comes to

1902
01:01:23,510 --> 01:01:22,799
these topics still be unifying because i

1903
01:01:25,510 --> 01:01:23,520
think you're right

1904
01:01:28,630 --> 01:01:25,520
if anything is going to save the world

1905
01:01:31,589 --> 01:01:30,230
i think even ballet did nail down in

1906
01:01:32,950 --> 01:01:31,599
messengers of deception and keel brought

1907
01:01:35,270 --> 01:01:32,960
up this concept too he's like

1908
01:01:36,150 --> 01:01:35,280
you need just straight up pro-human

1909
01:01:38,069 --> 01:01:36,160
propaganda

1910
01:01:39,190 --> 01:01:38,079
bring in a flying saucer you know bring

1911
01:01:41,349 --> 01:01:39,200
in the others

1912
01:01:42,950 --> 01:01:41,359
the outsiders you know from literally

1913
01:01:45,990 --> 01:01:42,960
outer space and that is

1914
01:01:47,349 --> 01:01:46,000
suddenly you know it is it's just this

1915
01:01:48,870 --> 01:01:47,359
kind of unifying force for

1916
01:01:50,549 --> 01:01:48,880
you know of course in keele's mind it

1917
01:01:51,990 --> 01:01:50,559
was very negative so for better or worse

1918
01:01:52,710 --> 01:01:52,000
apparently but for me at least it's

1919
01:01:53,990 --> 01:01:52,720
always been

1920
01:01:55,270 --> 01:01:54,000
i don't know the paranormal in general

1921
01:01:56,230 --> 01:01:55,280
has just always been a positive thing to

1922
01:01:58,470 --> 01:01:56,240
me so

1923
01:02:00,069 --> 01:01:58,480
yeah yeah little from column key a

1924
01:02:02,710 --> 01:02:00,079
little from column valet

1925
01:02:03,270 --> 01:02:02,720
where we're all set um well i got to ask

1926
01:02:05,190 --> 01:02:03,280
you this

1927
01:02:06,549 --> 01:02:05,200
uh bean has you've been doing this for a

1928
01:02:08,069 --> 01:02:06,559
while and um

1929
01:02:10,630 --> 01:02:08,079
you've really dug into a lot of

1930
01:02:11,029 --> 01:02:10,640
different things um and please excuse

1931
01:02:15,190 --> 01:02:11,039
the

1932
01:02:18,150 --> 01:02:15,200
welcome to new york um

1933
01:02:20,630 --> 01:02:18,160
uh what advice would you give to younger

1934
01:02:23,990 --> 01:02:20,640
people getting involved in these topics

1935
01:02:27,029 --> 01:02:24,000
um again like it's so easy to hop

1936
01:02:30,549 --> 01:02:27,039
on youtube and type in ufos and just be

1937
01:02:32,470 --> 01:02:30,559
like go down a rabbit hole um so

1938
01:02:34,150 --> 01:02:32,480
i think it's awesome that younger people

1939
01:02:34,710 --> 01:02:34,160
are getting interested in these topics

1940
01:02:36,950 --> 01:02:34,720
because

1941
01:02:39,589 --> 01:02:36,960
for so long like you and i were the

1942
01:02:42,150 --> 01:02:39,599
youngest people looking at this stuff

1943
01:02:43,589 --> 01:02:42,160
no we're not which is kind of refreshing

1944
01:02:44,789 --> 01:02:43,599
so yeah what advice would you give to

1945
01:02:47,270 --> 01:02:44,799
those just getting

1946
01:02:48,710 --> 01:02:47,280
involved in these really weird things we

1947
01:02:50,230 --> 01:02:48,720
do

1948
01:02:51,990 --> 01:02:50,240
well the first advice i would say is

1949
01:02:53,190 --> 01:02:52,000
definitely just it's okay to be

1950
01:02:54,870 --> 01:02:53,200
interested in this stuff

1951
01:02:56,470 --> 01:02:54,880
um i know that you know i was lucky

1952
01:02:58,710 --> 01:02:56,480
enough that yeah my mom

1953
01:02:59,910 --> 01:02:58,720
her side of the family was very open to

1954
01:03:01,910 --> 01:02:59,920
it even if they don't

1955
01:03:03,190 --> 01:03:01,920
you know believe necessarily in

1956
01:03:03,910 --> 01:03:03,200
everything that i'm discussing or

1957
01:03:05,829 --> 01:03:03,920
everything that

1958
01:03:07,430 --> 01:03:05,839
i was interested in they were open to it

1959
01:03:08,069 --> 01:03:07,440
and so i was very lucky to have that

1960
01:03:10,470 --> 01:03:08,079
growing up

1961
01:03:11,109 --> 01:03:10,480
but a lot of people do have a stigma

1962
01:03:13,910 --> 01:03:11,119
kind of

1963
01:03:14,390 --> 01:03:13,920
with paranormal phenomena so literally

1964
01:03:16,150 --> 01:03:14,400
it's

1965
01:03:17,510 --> 01:03:16,160
okay to be interested in this and also

1966
01:03:18,870 --> 01:03:17,520
too i mean at least from my standpoint i

1967
01:03:21,349 --> 01:03:18,880
think it's fantastic

1968
01:03:21,910 --> 01:03:21,359
to be interested in this and yeah you

1969
01:03:25,910 --> 01:03:21,920
know

1970
01:03:27,510 --> 01:03:25,920
can't tell you how many times

1971
01:03:29,589 --> 01:03:27,520
you know people would be like that's

1972
01:03:29,990 --> 01:03:29,599
weird or well that it doesn't exist in

1973
01:03:32,069 --> 01:03:30,000
high school

1974
01:03:33,349 --> 01:03:32,079
actually i tried to write a paper on um

1975
01:03:35,990 --> 01:03:33,359
dogman sightings

1976
01:03:37,109 --> 01:03:36,000
in wisconsin and my teacher told me she

1977
01:03:38,630 --> 01:03:37,119
was like you can't do this it has to be

1978
01:03:39,750 --> 01:03:38,640
real so i gave her the stack of books i

1979
01:03:43,270 --> 01:03:39,760
was referencing

1980
01:03:46,470 --> 01:03:43,280
so you know just know that like there is

1981
01:03:47,029 --> 01:03:46,480
definitely a value to this um and also

1982
01:03:50,230 --> 01:03:47,039
too

1983
01:03:50,549 --> 01:03:50,240
definitely don't believe 100 of what you

1984
01:03:52,549 --> 01:03:50,559
read

1985
01:03:54,390 --> 01:03:52,559
you know try and find researchers and

1986
01:03:56,230 --> 01:03:54,400
writers that you

1987
01:03:57,910 --> 01:03:56,240
you know can really kind of find

1988
01:03:58,950 --> 01:03:57,920
something that you admire about them or

1989
01:04:00,710 --> 01:03:58,960
like about them

1990
01:04:02,150 --> 01:04:00,720
and go with that but don't even follow

1991
01:04:04,230 --> 01:04:02,160
that blindly i mean i don't agree with

1992
01:04:06,150 --> 01:04:04,240
everything that john keel ever said

1993
01:04:07,750 --> 01:04:06,160
so just you know follow your interest

1994
01:04:11,670 --> 01:04:07,760
wherever it may go with that

1995
01:04:11,990 --> 01:04:11,680
so yeah i think if there's anything i've

1996
01:04:14,950 --> 01:04:12,000
learned

1997
01:04:16,150 --> 01:04:14,960
through all this uh is don't be afraid

1998
01:04:18,230 --> 01:04:16,160
to change your mind

1999
01:04:20,069 --> 01:04:18,240
because you're gonna do it on a daily

2000
01:04:23,589 --> 01:04:20,079
basis when it comes to this

2001
01:04:26,390 --> 01:04:23,599
and uh it's frustrating but um hey again

2002
01:04:26,789 --> 01:04:26,400
these things keep us on our toes which i

2003
01:04:28,870 --> 01:04:26,799
think

2004
01:04:30,630 --> 01:04:28,880
you know keeps me going it's that

2005
01:04:34,470 --> 01:04:30,640
journey it's not the destination

2006
01:04:38,150 --> 01:04:34,480
um so i guess kind of wrapping things up

2007
01:04:40,789 --> 01:04:38,160
um what do you want from all this celia

2008
01:04:41,270 --> 01:04:40,799
like let's get deep for a minute what i

2009
01:04:43,349 --> 01:04:41,280
mean

2010
01:04:44,390 --> 01:04:43,359
we got the origin story of how you got

2011
01:04:46,470 --> 01:04:44,400
interested in it

2012
01:04:47,910 --> 01:04:46,480
but what do you want at the end of the

2013
01:04:50,230 --> 01:04:47,920
day when it comes to

2014
01:04:51,750 --> 01:04:50,240
looking into these things and having

2015
01:04:53,910 --> 01:04:51,760
these like

2016
01:04:55,910 --> 01:04:53,920
mind-altering conversations with people

2017
01:04:57,829 --> 01:04:55,920
all over the world about

2018
01:05:00,069 --> 01:04:57,839
these topics what do you personally want

2019
01:05:02,470 --> 01:05:00,079
do you want answers vindication

2020
01:05:04,470 --> 01:05:02,480
um yeah give it to us again i know

2021
01:05:05,990 --> 01:05:04,480
that's a loaded question

2022
01:05:08,069 --> 01:05:06,000
well you know it's interesting because

2023
01:05:10,470 --> 01:05:08,079
speaking of journey versus destination

2024
01:05:12,470 --> 01:05:10,480
when i started with this i wanted to

2025
01:05:14,870 --> 01:05:12,480
find the proof that i wanted to find

2026
01:05:16,470 --> 01:05:14,880
bigfoot and that was like that was kind

2027
01:05:19,670 --> 01:05:16,480
of my life goal i just wanted to

2028
01:05:21,109 --> 01:05:19,680
yeah prove it and as time has gone on

2029
01:05:22,309 --> 01:05:21,119
you know i'm not even saying that proof

2030
01:05:23,589 --> 01:05:22,319
won't be available for certain things

2031
01:05:24,870 --> 01:05:23,599
like actually bigfoot's a great example

2032
01:05:26,230 --> 01:05:24,880
i think there may be

2033
01:05:28,069 --> 01:05:26,240
an actual population of some

2034
01:05:29,109 --> 01:05:28,079
undiscovered animal like that so yeah go

2035
01:05:30,630 --> 01:05:29,119
ahead find bigfoot

2036
01:05:32,150 --> 01:05:30,640
but for me especially regarding more

2037
01:05:32,950 --> 01:05:32,160
high strangeness research and the

2038
01:05:34,069 --> 01:05:32,960
entirety

2039
01:05:36,870 --> 01:05:34,079
of all these different types of

2040
01:05:37,510 --> 01:05:36,880
phenomena um now it's kind of just more

2041
01:05:39,109 --> 01:05:37,520
about

2042
01:05:40,710 --> 01:05:39,119
of course i really want more than

2043
01:05:43,190 --> 01:05:40,720
anything kind of understanding

2044
01:05:44,309 --> 01:05:43,200
i would really like to understand

2045
01:05:46,309 --> 01:05:44,319
something about

2046
01:05:47,910 --> 01:05:46,319
you know the mode by which these things

2047
01:05:48,870 --> 01:05:47,920
manifest or project you know their

2048
01:05:51,990 --> 01:05:48,880
connection to

2049
01:05:54,470 --> 01:05:52,000
us and you know possibly what

2050
01:05:55,349 --> 01:05:54,480
is source in our subconscious what are

2051
01:05:57,510 --> 01:05:55,359
we causing

2052
01:05:58,630 --> 01:05:57,520
what is truly the other um whatever that

2053
01:06:00,549 --> 01:05:58,640
other may be

2054
01:06:02,230 --> 01:06:00,559
so i think understanding um in any

2055
01:06:04,789 --> 01:06:02,240
regard is probably

2056
01:06:06,069 --> 01:06:04,799
my ultimate like kind of dream goal um

2057
01:06:08,230 --> 01:06:06,079
but for the time being

2058
01:06:09,109 --> 01:06:08,240
what i want is something that i actually

2059
01:06:10,789 --> 01:06:09,119
get quite a bit

2060
01:06:12,390 --> 01:06:10,799
being able to see that yeah a lot of

2061
01:06:14,390 --> 01:06:12,400
people are interested in this and a lot

2062
01:06:15,910 --> 01:06:14,400
of people take this seriously

2063
01:06:18,470 --> 01:06:15,920
um and to share that interest with

2064
01:06:21,270 --> 01:06:18,480
people that means the world to me

2065
01:06:22,950 --> 01:06:21,280
so kind of yeah kind of a bunch of

2066
01:06:25,430 --> 01:06:22,960
answers for that question

2067
01:06:27,109 --> 01:06:25,440
no that's perfect i mean again like i've

2068
01:06:29,109 --> 01:06:27,119
made some of the most amazing friends

2069
01:06:30,710 --> 01:06:29,119
and colleagues through this topic

2070
01:06:33,270 --> 01:06:30,720
that i know i never would have met in

2071
01:06:34,150 --> 01:06:33,280
this life um had i not been interested

2072
01:06:36,549 --> 01:06:34,160
in it so

2073
01:06:38,150 --> 01:06:36,559
i'm so thankful and fortunate for that

2074
01:06:38,710 --> 01:06:38,160
you know people like yourself that we

2075
01:06:41,190 --> 01:06:38,720
can

2076
01:06:42,630 --> 01:06:41,200
have these conversations without stigma

2077
01:06:44,710 --> 01:06:42,640
without ridicule

2078
01:06:46,710 --> 01:06:44,720
and um again i'm gonna take something

2079
01:06:50,549 --> 01:06:46,720
from this conversation we had tonight

2080
01:06:52,470 --> 01:06:50,559
that um that another listener will not

2081
01:06:54,549 --> 01:06:52,480
or another listener will or that you'll

2082
01:06:57,029 --> 01:06:54,559
take away from it and that's awesome

2083
01:06:58,950 --> 01:06:57,039
you know that we can like just hash it

2084
01:06:59,670 --> 01:06:58,960
out and bring more questions to the

2085
01:07:02,950 --> 01:06:59,680
table

2086
01:07:04,549 --> 01:07:02,960
and um i i have to thank you for coming

2087
01:07:05,510 --> 01:07:04,559
on today and really getting into the

2088
01:07:07,670 --> 01:07:05,520
weeds with us

2089
01:07:09,349 --> 01:07:07,680
again that we don't do this often on

2090
01:07:10,950 --> 01:07:09,359
somewhere in the sky so it was really

2091
01:07:12,309 --> 01:07:10,960
refreshing for me

2092
01:07:14,150 --> 01:07:12,319
well thank you again for inviting me on

2093
01:07:16,390 --> 01:07:14,160
this was just like fantastic

2094
01:07:18,470 --> 01:07:16,400
seriously a super fun discussion so

2095
01:07:21,430 --> 01:07:18,480
really thank you so much

2096
01:07:23,589 --> 01:07:21,440
awesome well before we go tell us where

2097
01:07:25,750 --> 01:07:23,599
can we find everything you're up to

2098
01:07:27,349 --> 01:07:25,760
um the youtube channel i know you're

2099
01:07:28,309 --> 01:07:27,359
always working you're always doing

2100
01:07:29,589 --> 01:07:28,319
something so yeah

2101
01:07:32,470 --> 01:07:29,599
where can we find everything you're up

2102
01:07:34,710 --> 01:07:32,480
to so my like kind of headquarters is uh

2103
01:07:37,270 --> 01:07:34,720
just another tinfoilhack.com

2104
01:07:38,950 --> 01:07:37,280
um so that's where i post um whatever

2105
01:07:39,589 --> 01:07:38,960
i'm possibly doing at the moment i'm

2106
01:07:41,109 --> 01:07:39,599
trying to

2107
01:07:42,710 --> 01:07:41,119
i'm actually starting to do um book

2108
01:07:44,069 --> 01:07:42,720
reviews on there too try to post kind of

2109
01:07:46,630 --> 01:07:44,079
more as like a blog

2110
01:07:47,910 --> 01:07:46,640
so um yeah just another tinfoilhack.com

2111
01:07:49,430 --> 01:07:47,920
and then i have the youtube channel

2112
01:07:49,910 --> 01:07:49,440
which is also called if you can believe

2113
01:07:53,829 --> 01:07:49,920
it

2114
01:07:58,069 --> 01:07:53,839
just another tinfoil hat so yeah and

2115
01:07:59,829 --> 01:07:58,079
yeah keeping it on brand i love it

2116
01:08:02,630 --> 01:07:59,839
well again i have to thank you for

2117
01:08:04,470 --> 01:08:02,640
coming on today uh as a first time guest

2118
01:08:06,470 --> 01:08:04,480
and i'd love to have you back on because

2119
01:08:09,750 --> 01:08:06,480
we really only scratched the surface

2120
01:08:10,549 --> 01:08:09,760
but um i know i know you have a lot of

2121
01:08:13,349 --> 01:08:10,559
research

2122
01:08:15,349 --> 01:08:13,359
to get to so xelia thank you once again

2123
01:08:16,789 --> 01:08:15,359
for coming on somewhere in the skies

2124
01:08:25,110 --> 01:08:16,799
well thank you so much too and yeah

2125
01:08:36,829 --> 01:08:25,120
anytime that would be fantastic

2126
01:08:36,839 --> 01:08:40,139
so

2127
01:08:59,780 --> 01:08:56,219
[Music]